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Interview with Hindustan TV station, Varikstraat Ashram, Amsterdam, 31st July 1994, Translation
Q: Shri Mataji, can you give your introduction in short?
Shri Mataji: Introduction is such that, I belong to the family Shalivahanas. Both my father and mother were great disciples of Gandhiji. And my father was a member of the Constituent Assembly and also the parliament. My mother was honours in mathematics. I have a brother who is a cabinet minister. But spiritually it was my parents who recognised me, that I had something special in me. Then I got married. At that time I was studying in a medical college in Lahore. Then there was trouble in Lahore in those times, so I had to leave my studies, and I got married. My husband is Dr. C. P. Srivastava and he is a well known person. Later he was chosen as the Secretary General of a U.N. Organisation called IMO, International Maritime Organisation. He was chosen unanimously by 134 nations. Now he has taken retirement. I have two daughters. One of them is married in Bihar. They are related to (Rajendra Babu)
Q: Mostly we see that there are yogis coming from India, but they are mostly men. You are the only woman. Do you see something special in that?
Shri Mataji: Yes, because only a woman can do this work, not possible for others. Sri Rama came, and had to go to exile. Sri Krishna came and he had to leave soon. And when he used to get angry he would use his Sudarshana Chakra. Jesus Christ came, and he was crucified. Prophet Mohammed came and he was poisoned. So the way of handling children is something that only a mother knows. And that is what we call patience, that you have to bear patiently with children, is something only a mother knows.
Q: How do you work these days?
Shri Mataji: So I go to every country, and tell people about Sahaja Yoga. And in these are special times that in every country people are seeking in thousands. Whether they seek God or they seek the Truth, it is the same. But there is no one to show them the way. Everyone knows that there is a market now, so everyone is into making money. Fact is, that to get the truth, you cannot give any money. You cannot buy truth! It is the light inside you that gets awakened!
Q: We know about Karma Yoga, Gyana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Tantra Yoga. You have talked about Sahaja Yoga. What is its importance?
Shri Mataji: The importance is that it is the gist of all yogas. In Karma Yoga Krishna said that “Do your karma.” But Krishna was a diplomatic personality. He didn’t say it clearly. He thought if people are not so clear themselves yet, so let’s tell them in this unclear manner. So there was special in what he said, that “Karmanya Vadhikaraste Ma Faleshu Kadachit”. That “Do your Karma but don’t desire for results.” And the second thing he said was, “Whatever Karma you do, surrender it to me.” This we cannot do! Because we have ego; whatever we do we never think that, let’s surrender it to God. Tomorrow someone will do a murder and will surrender that also to God.
There is a way of it, that is, that you first get connected to God. And then you will see. You will do karma in a way that it will be akarma. Whatever you will do, you will never feel that you are doing it. All you feel is that it is happening. When this state comes in you, is when this is possible. This is what he spoke about. And on bhakti He said, “Flowers, fruits, leaves, whatever you give me I will accept”. But what can we give? On such things are his words. He said that… ( interruption in tape)
Q: We know about Karma Yoga, Gyana Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Tantra Yoga. You have talked about Sahaja Yoga. What is its importance? (same Q again)
Shri Mataji: The importance is that it incorporates all yogas. That is to say that till you don’t get connected to God through Sahaja Yoga, all yogas have no meaning for you. Krishna made Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga. In both these yogas he indicated that you should have a connection to me. First he said that whatever deeds you do, surrender them to me. That we cannot do. That can only be done after Sahaja Yoga. Then he talked about bhakti. “Ananya Bhakti”, which means bhakti when there is no other. This also happens only after Sahaja Yoga. Because till the time you are not really connected to God, whatever deed you do, you will hold yourself responsible for it. Then there is Tantra Yoga. So in this we use the tantra. Tantra means the mechanism inside us. That is the mechanism we use in Sahaja Yoga. And the so called tantricas, they don’t know anything about it. They do all wrong things. So it’s not so called Tantrism we are talking about, but the knowledge of Tantra, our inner mechanism. The seven chakras and the three nadis, that is what we are talking about.
Now no one has written on this, but they have all said, “Sahaja samadhi lago”(Get Sahaja Meditation). Both Guru Nanak and Kabir have mentioned about it. Kabira has said a lot about it. “Ida Pingala sukhmana nadi re”. (Ida, Pingala and Sushumna are the three nadis). “Shunya shikhar par anahad baaje”(The continuous pulsation beats at the epitome).Everything! Now “Anhada”, Adi Shankaracharya has called them “Spanda”(Pulsation). So all this that has been told, the complete explanation and experience you have after Sahaja Yoga. Till you have no connection, it’s like you have a telephone without connection, who are you calling?
Q: Are there things like asanas, and pranayamas, in Sahaja Yoga?
Shri Mataji: No. In Sahaja Yoga the Kundalini inside you gets awakened and rises through six chakras, and comes out of your fontanel bone area, and gets you connected to the all pervading power of the divine. But if you have a physical problem, say your spine has some problem, then we can tell some asana to him. But (the idea) that asana (physical yoga posture) has to be done by everyone is like saying that everyone should take every medicine from a medicine box!
Everything has a system, and discipline. Till now I haven’t told any asana to anyone!
Q: You are talking about Kundalini. So what does a seeker do, if he does not do asanas, does not do pranayamas?
Shri Mataji: It’s Sahaja, spontaneous. You don’t have to do anything. Just settle in it. Just as you sow a seed and Mother Earth sprouts it spontaneously and a tree is formed. Similarly in your seed, the Kundalini is the sprout. And after getting awakened, it finds its own way. And when you start doing something, you come into imbalance. You don’t have to do anything, but try to get into thoughtless awareness. The first state is of thoughtlessness, which you can achieve.
First edit done to here – 15.03.2012
If you think, you either think of what has happened or what will happen. So we live either in the past or in the present. And both the things do not exist. The past is finished and the future is not there. So to get into the present this kundalini works out. No thoughts, you are in thoughtless awareness state, and you grow. So many powers inside you get enlightened.
Q: I have read and heard in other Yogic practices, that one should be careful of Kundalini Shakti, it can be dangerous also. It can hurt the seeker or even make him mad.
Shri Mataji: This is a very wrong notion. It can never happen, because Kundalini is your individual Mother.She knows everything about you.When you were born all the pains were born by your Mother. You did not take any pain, did you? This is a very wrong statement. Those people who do not know about Kundalini talk like this. Or those who do not want that people should go towards truth.
Q: How can Sahaja Yoga transform the life of a person?
Shri Mataji: I all ways. One his physical state becomes completely allright. Now I have told you I am 71 years old, but I travel so much everyday.There is no problem I am just fine.So your life also becomes very empowered, and many things which cause you trouble, those illnesses, they get allright. We have even cured cancer. Many types of illnesses have been cured.This is about physical health, but you also get mental health. Many people have depression, epilepsy, lunacy, all this can be cured with Sahaja Yoga. And then your innermost desire as a seeker, that he should atain God, and atain His Shakti, You atain that. So you transform physically ,emotionally, and also mentally. I have seen children who were very week in studies, they started coming first in class.because when Kundalini enters your intelligence, it enlightens it. So your intelligence becomes sharp. Your sttention becomes steady and integrated. And also very innocent.
Q: A Sahaja Yogi is always practicing alone, or can thi sbe done in groups also?
Shri Mataji:He has to practice individually also, but it is in collectivity that he grows the most.Because the give and take between each other happens automatically. So colectivity is very important. Its just like when the drop becomes the part of the ocean , it becomes the ocean itself. Then you flow with the ocean. The drop cannot move independent of the ocean. But you also have to meditate athome on your own. Say for 10 mins. Just like a bath. So he also takes a bath with which the internal cleansing takes place. All this is the work of the pure energy, that is Love, that makes a man absolutely pure.What we call as “Khalis”
Q: In modern society we see, there are all kind of problems.Like peope are dying of hunger in the world. Or there are wars. There is so much discrimination. What awnser can Shaja Yoga give to the world?
Shri Mataji: Sahaja Yoga has a huge effect. First of all man forgets discrimination of cste and creed because universal brotherhood comes in him. He starts to think, who is theother? There is only one. Now we have marriages in Sahaja Yoga. Every year some 80 to 90 marriages take place. They are all international, and they all live in peace. They have very nice family lives. They have beautiful children, and very pure inside. They have left drinking, smoking, I never said anything to them. Spontaneously everything drops out. Like in the darkness you can sit in your hand with a snake. And if a light comes in, you just drop it. Just like that these people have become pure! And all these problems you have are because of man. All these political problems in the world are because of man. So when man is allright all these problems will also be solved.
Q: But these problems are so many. And if I see it, I just heard yesterday about Sahaja Yoga.
Shri Mataji: No, No. I don’t know why you were unaware. Its avery old word. And also it is a very old thing. It used to be kept as a secret before. May be thats why you did not hear about it. Sahjaja means spontaneous. And if you know hindi, it also means born with you. It is your right. You have to get it.
Q: In our language i thin “Sahaj” means easy.
Shri Mataji: yes, that is true. Its the same thing.
Q: And there arae many problems in the society. Like people go mad. Or they run too much after materialism in western countries. There are a lot of family problems. There is divorce between husband and wife….
Shri Mataji: But now a new race is getting ready. A new kind of people who are away from all these problems.They don’t have family problems, or society problems. Because man is the cause of all these problems. If every individual human being is corrected, and that individual if he becomes collective, and one, then where is any problem? Now look at us. All this is happening in 65 countries. And these people when they meet together, they four to five thousand people together at a time. I have never seen them fighting, or having any arguments.The may tease each other, but for fun. They all are in joy!
Q:You being a women, can you give some message to our sisters here, who are moving forward every moment.
Shri Mataji: My message for women is that our society has put always a lot of burden on them. They have taken care of our religion, of their households, their children, and their husbands. Thats why we can still say , that the kind of society we have in India, you will not find it anywhere in the world. They may belong to any religion, Hindu muslim, sikhs or christians. They all have peace in their lives. This has been maintained by the women. This is the work of women. A woman is like Mother earth. She tolerates so much and still nurtures everything. And man is like the sun. So to tolerate the heat of the sun, and then to nurture and produce nature, is the task of the earth. Similarly women are very powerful. And Indian women specially are respected all over the world. Its also said, ” Yatra narya pujyante, ramante tatra devta”.(The deities onle reside where women are worshipped)
Q: We Indians in the west , we are forgetting our own culture. What would you say on that?
Shri Mataji: That is happening everywhere.In India also. Its called Coco Cola Culture. But it will change. Because when they will see its negative effects, then people will change. I recently met the cultural (……?) of China.He was also saying that this coco cola culture was a lot in china also. But its changing now. But we have something stay inside us in our culture in the roots, that there we cannot change. Its very steady.
Q: What is the importance of our Indian culture?
Shri Mataji: The biggest thing is that it is based on Dharma. Dharma means, morality. That man has a lot of moral bindings. Morality is a very important thing. And this morality is left out here in the west. So what is their culture? And in our culture morality is the most important thing. There are a lot odf such examples based on morality in our culture.
Q: ShriMataJi what is the importance of Indian culture?( Question repeated)
Shri Mataji: Importance is that our Indian culture is based on morality. Morality os very important. Immorality is not accepted in our society. But here morality and cuture are two different things. There is no talk of morality in culture. Like , I was talking to this lady, she was very educated. And i was surprised when she told me that itsin our culture that we expose our bodies. And I thought what kind of a culture is this? So like this they don’t have any morality in their culture.The first thingi sthat if something does’nt have morality in it…then what kind of a thing shall it be?
So Indians need to know that they hold on strongly to their morality and their culture. Because in the end everyone is going to take to that. So why should we give in. Now these Sahaja Yogis you see, they are living completely like in our culture. And in their own freedom. Because the culture has a part of the pure spirit in itself. It is based on the light of the spirit. The origins of our culture is to do with great seers, great saints, the real ones. And where has their culture originated from?Whatever Christ told them, they don’t follow even a bit of it. All that he has talked is the explanationof Sahaja Yogis. You should’nt have adulterous eyes. Thisis what He said. And these people in the west, specially the Christians, what do they know?
Q: But we see in western countries, these people are moving towards Indian spirituality.What is your opinion on that?
Shri Mataji: Thats so because, we Indians we think, we know everything. But these people they see that they are drowning, and this spirituality is the only thing that can support them. And they are ready to do anything for spirituality. Many got lost in it also. Because many crooks also came from our country, and befooled them , and made a lot of money here. But I see that with what depth these people understand Sahaja Yoga, we Indians do not. And also Indians outside India, they also don’t hold on to Sahaja Yoga. I don’t know what is the reason.
Q: One last question. I have read that people believe you are an incarnation. How do you see yourself?
Shri Mataji: I shall not say. I don’t want to say. There must be something. Otherwise how is all this working out? The thing is if you say something that I am this or I am that, people run after you to kill you. I am not here to die. Christ said i am the son of God, and they crucified Him for that. They poisened Mohommad Sahab. In oue culture they have tortured saints endlessly. In your Bihar, Kabira was born, Budhdha was born. What a land it is! Mahavira, the founder of Jainism was born. And there have been so many saints. Now Kabira called Kundalini, by the name of Surati, and these people in Bihar, they name Tobacco as Surati! Now what should I say? The way they have done the juxtaposition of whatever these great saints said and did, I think I better not say anything. I would rather say, first you get your self realisation, and then know me from your subtle vision. And what is the need for me to say anything? I am a woman, I am a Mother. All this is me.
Q: Thank you.
Q: We have people from Surinam here in Holland. So they also get entangled in the problems of west, like divorce, growing stress, and people are running after materialism. What is your opinion on that?
Shri Mataji: The solution to all this is Sahaja Yoga. Because when Sahaja Yoga happens, you realise that you are not alone. With you everyone is enjoying this nector. Everything in this creation is for joy. I you get that joy, why will you run after material things? You have nothing to do with materialism. But the quality of materialism, is this. Like if people come to you, and you want to show your love to them, so you offer them things to eat and drink. Or give them some presents. This is real materialism. This is the beauty of matter. The other thing is art. Whatever is matter how can you make it beautiful, and decorate it. That is asthetics. You can create beauty out of matter. But when matter becomes money, then everything becomes ugly. But the realisation of this happens after Sahaja Yoga.Like these things made out of Ganges(……?) are very good for Sahaja yogis. Because the vibrations flow from them. Something that has vibrations is what we consider beautiful. Like the picture of MonaLisa, it has vibrations. Its in many places, like this 16 chappel, here , it has vibrations. Where there are vibrations flowing, there is beauty. And then what is the need to possess it. Just enjoy it ! For example, if this is my carpet then its my headache that I have to get it insured, and this and that. But if its yours, then its good for me, I am enjoying it! So attachment goes away. You shall be surprised to know people in Russia have no attachments. The government asked them to take their own flats, and to take care of them. And the people said we don’t want anything, we don’t want to ow anything, you keep it. And what are we goingto own. Its all going to be left here. But this can only happen after Sahaja Yoga.
Q: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: All problems, now you have these poor people….I can tell you……
Now see, our country is a agriculture based country, what we call as farmers, they are more in our country. With the help of Sahaja Yoga, sometimes the agriculture produce is 10 times or 20 times. Such big Sunflowers, with the help of these vibrations. And lot more can be done. So a sahaja Yogi is no more poor.Because he has the best seeds, the best agriculture produce, an dhe is better off the other people. So the countries which is agriculture based economy, for them Sahaja Yoga is a great thing. And cows. Norma cows give around 4 to o5 (ser) milk, now she gives around 12(ser).And we don’t need to buy hybrid seeds. Just vibrating the normal seeds solves the problem! So you don’t need to be a slave of any company.So the problems of our country, specially our country, can be solved. There are many such things. In Sahaja Yoga you can understand. Which are the special things we have, that can be sent abroad. You get a subtle understanding. And you all will also prosper inall ways, once you get this subtle understanding.
Man when he is one with the whole, all his hidden qualities, start manifesting, start getting enlightened. There are great musicians in Sahaja Yoga, great artists in Sahaja Yoga. Our Commander in Chief, he is also in Sahaja Yoga. So this is such a thing, that as soon as a human being gets it, he achieves his “Parampada”( Highest state). He goes in that state. We always pray for “Parampada”. This is “Parampada”.
Q: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: Hope I have answered all your questions.
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi