Arrival and Talk: Sahaja Yoga is the same as Zen

Hotel Chinzanso Tokyo, Tokyo (Japan)

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1995-0301 Arrival and Talk, Hotel Chinzanso, Tokyo

In Australia we did Shiva Puja, and this is the result of that, I’m here.

It was in a forest, absolutely dark forest, and there was very little light over there, they had to lit with their torches.

At this time, I don’t know, I was having one of the best Puja we had.

I really got completely detached, absolutely in meditation, and everybody opened their heart. They came to the airport and brought all these flowers, and everything for me, so many things for me. So many of them. There were 760 people for the Puja.

It should happen to Japan also. It will. When I started in Australia there were only 2 persons. Because despite all your progress and everything, I find Japanese are very disturbed within. They are very unhappy people. So it is a very difficult situation. But they have no way out, it takes them to drug also.

The way we should understand Japan is very important from Sahaja Yoga point of view. But this materialism really dries them out. They should understand the value of love. And also power of love. This programme is so that we could have had a programme tomorrow. I am telling him what was the reason we had four days there in Hong Kong. They are more oriented towards this. In Hong Kong I know we are many I must say, unless I have done a great job. There are so many sahaja yogis there. Also here there will be, no doubt.

There are extremist also: work work work like their family. To them nothing but just working out, all the time. Their balance is not mantained, they are very disturbed I should say. Because matter cannot give joy. Today we want to buy something, then we want to buy something else. Never satisfied with matter. That’s why. There’s no satisfaction.

But you have here Zen system, which was very strong I must stay. Zen means meditation yang. Zen means meditation. Then I was surprised there were realised souls till the sixtheenth century. But they started the zen system, I think 600 years old. But only up to the sixteenth century they had one zen in a million. They were called as Kassyapas, Kassya. In india there was one Kassya. He said he was Kassya. And there were many realized souls in those saints, who were not ascetic, were not belonging to any particular cast or community. So they were called as Kassyapa, there is a nice story about it, how it started. So this saint, the son of Kassyaba was Kassya. And he said, all of those people who have had no (don’t understand) and who might be doing the parents, all sorts of children are Kassyapas, they will be called as Kassyapas, because they are realized souls. So the same system the Zen brought it. Actually we did realize the one who brought it, Ditama. He was a disciple of Buddha. But I think in the purest form he brought here Zen. He was the real disciple of Buddha. Others, with Maya and all that, they started all kind of ritualism, but it is him who brought it. But even before Buddha we had a tradition of the Mother Earth. I do not know how far the Japanese accepted it, but in the eastern China and other places they worshipped Mother Earth. This comes from ancient times. And then this Buddha came in, but Zen was the same of Buddha thought of it. Very close to that. Then we had in China Tao. Tao means actually Kundalini. And it compared the Kundalini with the Yangtze river. I mentioned to my husband that ever, because he was shipping there and said that this is the most difficult river which one has to cross. They don’t understand english? Buddha does not understand. They don’t understand at all? Then tell them about it. Ditama, that started Zen.

Sahaja Yoga is the same as Zen, because it has the principle of zen. Then there were so many thnkgs things which changed one by one. Why don’t you tape it? Are you taping what I say?

Now this zen system started first with the idea of detachment from taste as one, so they used to have tea ceremony and they would make the tea from the bitterest taste, put it in a bowl and that was offered. Very bitter. And after that it was offered a sweet, very sweet. Sweeter than the power of 108. So from one extreme to another extreme. And the tea ceremony they would have in very natural surrounding. And the cup they would use would be a freak you see, like a natural container. So they were supposed to see the bowl of that cup withouth thinking. And move the bowl three times withouth thinking. So to create thoughtless awareness. And also they would use very old trees, put them in the water, take out their natural shapes and put them around. I mean, it was something to give the nature’s work. Like a tree, you see like a stone which is very beatifully made by God, or even withouth God it was something made on a subtle line, like Buddha was. But whatever is made by nature, the beauty of the nature they would like to appreciate and show. They would take a tree which is very old, put it in the water and put some creeper on the top of that, and show the beauty of the all tree.

Then the other thing they have is to make a garden of stones. Put different types of shapes of stones in a terrier, 7-5 hundred feet. Then cover the all thing with sand. So the whole thing was sand and sandy stones with different shape, use and different natural reflection. And the sand they would use a sort of a fork to make a kind of a design. So the idea was to sit outside that area and watch the all thing withouth thinking. And, when you see that you should not react, just watch it. But what people used to do is to come there and say:” this is like an ocean, these are maybe rocks and maybe ships”. I mean, the reaction of the mind. So the fundamental point that you should be thoughtless aware was lost. And if you read the zen poetry you understand very simple words but very deep meaning.

One of the books I’ve written about the leaders and Sahaja Yoga, is that I used the zen philosophy. There were 9 volumens of zen which I had to (don’t understand). But nobody understands zen because it is to become thoughlessly aware. But such a great philosophy was lost. We had in India the head of the Zen here, about 20 years back when he came to India. He was very sick in the hotel, and none of the doctors could say what was wrong with him. So they send for me, to cure him. He was just possessed so I could cure him. But I asked him: are you a realized soul? Are you kassyapa? He said: “no I am not.” He told me there have been only so far 16 kassyapas in the history of zen, and we are none after the 16th , none. So I said: “if you are not a kassyapa how can you become the head of zen sytem?” He said “what to do, they had no kassyapa, somebody has to become.” So you had a very old traditional thing of kassyapa you see, and also of zen.

So this country has that foundamental. And they begin with the center chakra, and used to thrust with the ebony rod. I think ebony it feels like an electrical thing. That may be the reason they use ebony for touching the chakras. You had other religions which were not so deep like zen. Only things were Buddha and Mahavira were deities at the time. They were born at the same time. And they believed in penance, tapassya. To get detachment to the ascetic. But they failed in a way that people could take to that kind of life, or maybe the reaction is materialism. Also the drama that you call No, is also the expression of the same. Also your name has lot of sanskrit in it. Like (not understand), wisdom and giver of success. So many names I know have sanskrit in it. I do not know if Ditama was an Indian or Japanese. But he came to Japan, whatever it is. Because so many names here also are just like the indian names. But the zen also following zen religion do not understand. Have you read that book which I written about polarity? About sahaja yogis and leaders, very small little book. That is, it is more on the zen system. He talked of polarity and how to keep in the centre. Because if you do not keep in the center then you cannot have peace of mind, you cannot have harmony. But already I must say Japan is blessed. Also China has this Tao. And some japanese used to follow Tao. Now they believe in Confucius. In Buddha and Mahavira did not believed, I mean they believed but did not say that there is God. They called Nihil Shurva because there is no God. Because they thought if they started talking about God people suddendly became sort of superficial. They believed in God, this God, that God and all kind of problems. Because they don’t know what God is. So now you see the (quarrell started-not sure), anything that an incarnation did was to correct the (quarrell started-not sure). Why God, so so many gurus went forward. So they became fanatic. Also in Sahaja Yoga, some sahaja yogis became fanatic about it. How can you became fanatic in Sahaja Yoga? If I say something they will go to the other extreme. So this is the dilemma of the human beings today, not easy to deal with that. But Shri Rama tells you that Sahaja Yoga is growing very fast, everywhere. Will be soon entering into main China. Because of their prime minister, I even went to his palace with my husband in China, three times. And he was very much interested in yoga and all that. I did not say anything to him but he was very impressed by my personality. We had a group photograph, my husband is standing there and the prime minister there next to him and they are all standing through there. So the Sahaja Yogis have enlarged that photograph, they are always concerned about every country is not getting Sahaja Yoga yet. And when this summer this prime minister went to Austria in Vienna for some conference, so sahaja yogis took this photograph photograph and showed him. And he remembered me. Then he asked: how do you know her, how do you have the photograph? So they told she is our spiritual guru, she is this and that. He was very much impressed. So he said all right, my cultural attachee will come and see because she is not here. Cultural attachee. When I was there this cultural attachee was very anxious to meet me. The cultural attachee is part of the embassy. He came to see me and I told him about Sahaja Yoga. He was very humble. He said:” I am so honoured”. He sat on the ground, said “very honoured to meet you” and all that. And I also told him about Tao, that is very much followed in China. And I gave him realization. And he asked me “is this the great wealth of spirituality which you have in India?”

The treasure of spirituality you should have in your country, and he did think about it. And he said more our children, my young sons we find are studying Tao. Not our generation, but this new generation. Especially after all the problem they have had, the young people. So I said I am willing to come to China if (cannot understand) can invite me there officially. And he came to me again, and he told me that this old man is still there and it is very difficult to do anything with him, and he is an hater of India somehow. So you should wait till he dies. But I am sure Sahaja Yoga will enter there very fast. We have already a center. Many people have gone in Hong Kong and started a center there. Also in Russia, because it was communist. You see we are democratic countires here. In Russia we have thousands and thousands of Sahaja Yogis.

Like there is a joke that one sahaja yogi from Togliatti went to lots of sahaja yogis to ask how many sahaja yogis do you have there in America. About three years back, in America. So they said they have 56. So he said:” oh my God, 56 thousand? We have only 22 thousand in Togliatti.”

In America they are so stupid, idiots. You see, everybody can be fooled by some sort of tricks.

Recently there was a fellow who showed how you can control the mind of others. And how you can make somebody move the pendulum. He used to call soebody from the audience and say: “I control his mind “. then he moved the pendulum and the fellow might move the pendulum. And so many people gave so much money to him, they stopped their children from going to school, they sold their houses, Deepak Chopra was his name. I mean in Washington they came and told me that they have given everything to this man. And I said: what is the goal in your life, to move a pendulum? Why did you give him so much money, why did you do all that? They said they were impressed. They are idiots you know, idiots. They do such idiotic things that none of the eastern people can even think of. All of them, but now they are facing their own limits. But they don’t have any background, and you have, isn’t it. I think you do a lot here. Like this painting, it is very impressive, very good. I have this photograph in the house, which I saw for the first time, and I said what nice photograph you have here. This was when I was in the early years of (don’t understand) at the time. But when the photograph came in the clouds, it had also the same.

Yogi: I took one more in India, in Jaipur Puja, there was a white thing going from your feet to the sky.

Shri Mataji: really, you have not sent it to anyone?

Yogi: not yet.

Shri Mataji: you should give me now

There are so many like that. Like in Brisbane. We were there in Brisbane and we had one photograph at the Ashram there. And then the rainbow appeared. And one sahaja yogini took the photograph, and there is a photograph of the rainbow. I enjoy always the painting with mother and child. It is there, and in the real paniting there is no auror around the mother, but in this was there, in the sky, exactly. And once it was in the rainbow, my all face, absolutely took all the rainbow colours.

Recently, there was a gentleman in Jaipur who took my photo in Jaipur. You can hardly see me, nothing but vibrations, you could hardly see. So many photographs, all of them.

Very interesting. Does printing cost too much here, from the computer? Not so much.

Yogi: I made a film, I went to a print shop and made a film. I got the film and the shop gave me 2000 of these, then they print. So it is cheap.

Shri Mataji: what do you have here?

Yogi: that is Socrates, that is Lao Tze, that is and all the 10 gurus: Confucious, Moses, Guru Nanak, Zoroaster, Sai Baba of Shirdi.

Shri Mataji: this is the one which is the Agnya, actually. Is this Lao Tze?

Yogi: this is the symbol of Lao Tze.

Shri Mataji: that is the angya there. That is how the brain is, if you cut it. It shows the baloons.

Yogi: this is also about Confucius. And he has written: meditation, peace an joy.

Shri Mataji: very nice, they won’t be frightened with this?

Yogi: in Japan no problem, they use it, everyone. So here it is written where your own Motherly eyes: shri Mataji (don’t understand). And here is present past and future. Here is the collective unconscious. There are 3 states. Supraconscious…

Shri Mataji: This is the fourth, Turiya. The fourth state, the absolute silence.

Yogi: extreme ego and superego is supra conscious and subconscious.(don’t understand) Here earth, fire, water, air, ether lights and all the elements.

Shri Mataji: so knowledge given for free. I have now to get ready. I am sorry that my stay was so short, may God bless you.

(don’t understand) very old one my which husband bought it, I don’t know why he bought it. Just because people say too much buy one for us.

They say you have your fancy dress. So I say: very well go for fancy dress. I kept it. But now this is such a beatiful, very beautiful. In Japan how do you make such nice beautiful silk? But you can’t get it here, better in Malaysia, Malaysia is very cheap. You get Japanese silk very cheaply. I have bought it there and then you make sari out of that, very good sari, pure silk beautiful. Do you have here a farm for silk?

Yogi: I am not quite sure.

Shri Mataji: no, there must be. Because very beautiful silk comes from there. But outside, not here. Here if you buy anything better to buy in Hong Kong or Malaysia. Especially Malaysia. All right?

Yogi: Shri Mataji, this is a capo, a new capo, japanese capo. This is (don’t understand)

Shri Mataji: so are you happy?

Yogini: yes very much.

Yogi: every one that marries from Japan is very happy.

Shri Mataji: I know. (don’t understand)

Yogi: Kazukoe is the sister of Yasuko, she married Maurizio. She is very happy.

Shri Mataji: Wonderful person Maurizio, he is a gem.

Yogi: And Chieko, the first one, she is pregnant.

Shri Mataji: that is one thing about Cabella. If you come and stay in Cabella. Those who have had no children for 14 years, get it. There is something of Cabella I think.

Yogi: He is going soon, next week to Cabella.

Shri Mataji: He is watching me all the time.

Yogi: he prays every morning for you in a funny language.

Shri Mataji: bija mantras.b(don’t understand) Have you seen his Ditama statue? The have here what they call it…Buddha statue…

Yogi: yes it is in Kamakura. It is a big Budha. And last year some bad people spraied it with swastika from Hitler.

Shri Mataji: on Buddha? It is the same, there is no difference. They can’t understand.

I have seen much more of Japan than you might have seen. Because we went round the all of Japan like a (don’t understand). On the north side, absolutely on the north. Very interesting that people. Kobe and all that we saw of course, going down this way. Then we went round and completed that circle of a road by Shikamashi. That is how I know also the inside. And we came at the time when this old tradition were there. Ladies used to wear kimono and all that was still there. Also they took us to the geisha house. It was very interesting because we did not know anything about this country.

Yogi: Mother, in that statue of Buddha, Buddha is standing like that. In meditation like that.

Shri Mataji: that means he is one with inside completely, all the centers. Buddha is in various phases: like he is very joyous person, Buddha with children,very fat. Also with children all around his body.That’s the sign you see a man, because Buddha is in charge of our ego. And a man with the ego, to conquer the ego: always smiling, laughing, playing with children and flowers. So he is showing that in many ways, Buddha. He is also our(don’t understand).

I think it is all into each other now, they are not separated all the centers.

Different poses are there. Not only that, so many poses of Buddha. You know the greeks when they came to India they wanted to make him to look like a greek god.

In India you must go and see the museum: Buddha has got moustches, shoes and he is dressing like a greek god, you see the dress which is pinned up here.

So he is called like Gandarva Shairi. Gandarva means like a musician. Which is a description of Greece. They were musicians in Greece, artist in Greece. So the effect of their art has come in India very much. But Buddha-Rama were thrown away in the sixth century in India because of its ascetic strictness. But then some of them became tantrica, in Tibet we have tantrica, even in Nepal we have tantrica buddist. It’s all been wasted I think.