Talk to Sahaja Yogis

Hong Kong (China)

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Talk to Sahaja Yogis in Hong Kong, 10 March 1996.

So many questions, you see… Now, most of the questions are coming from people who doubt. Can you translate it? In Sahaja Yoga best thing is to practice what is said and then see for yourself, but if they’re coming I would like to tell them about it.

Now the first one is about vegetarianism, somebody’s asked. Who has asked about vegetarianism? Raise your hand. Ah, you, all right. Now, I said that there should be, there is no question of vegetarianism; whether you are a vegetarian or not makes no difference to your meditation. But for people, you see, the food is only important because supposing you’re Chinese, you eat too much of fish and all that. So to give it a balance, if you become a vegetarian more you’d be better.

It’s a question of balancing, but those people who eat too much of, say, vegetarians, like in India, they should take more to non-veg, or to proteins; it’s a question of carbohydrates and proteins, it’s not question of vegetarianism. Now to say that Buddha was vegetarian is not true; it’s false. Because how Buddha died, you know? Buddha died when he went to a disciple who had killed a wild boar, and the wild boar is allowed to leave for some time and then you should eat the meat. But he was in a hurry, so they didn’t do that and he ate it and he died.

Now the problem with all of you is one, always, like whether you’re Christians or Buddhists or anything, you’re all conditioned background. To you Buddha is everything. What did Buddha do for you? Where is he? What is he doing? What did he do for the Buddhists? Did he give you Realization? But you all are like that, even the Christians are like that. They’re so much conditioned by Christ. You see, they are either Christ or Mohammad Sahib or someone like that, but I’m sitting before you. They’re not here. Who has given you Realization? Try to understand.

So why be so much conditioned by Buddha? Buddha was never, never was a vegetarian; he died because of that. He ate that meat and he died; so it’s a wrong idea that Buddha was a vegetarian. It’s all myths they’re going about and there is no need to be vegetarian; if you are suffering from too much of protein intake you should take to vegetarianism. It’s good for you if you have that problem, and in China eat so much of, say, fish. So they should take more vegetables with it, not only the fish because with fish you have phosphorous.

Now do you know about your genes, we have a database of the genes. There are three things, carbohydrates, there is phosphorous and there is nitrogen. Nitrogen is good for your health, for your ascent, for everything. But what happens? People eat too much of proteins and fish and all that; then they create more phosphorous, they become very right-sided, their eyes are spoilt and the whole balance is lost. Do you follow the point? The balance is lost; so what you have to do… So the people who are eating too much of phosphorous must take to carbohydrates. So it will suit some people who are eating too much of proteins or too much of phosphorous should take to more vegetarian food, will help; but it’s not the way we should judge it we start by taking vegetarianism will become a realized soul, you cannot.

Some people it will improve the meditation, with some people it will not. For example Me, I can’t take vegetarian food for more than two days, I get diarrhea, sympathetic. I just get diarrhea, I cannot eat. I cannot also eat all the time fish, I have to eat a very much of protein food. You see for the Goddess they offered a lamb or sometimes a goat, this is the reason She has to take proteins. This is what it is that She has to take proteins, and somebody has to take, say, more of carbohydrates, they should take. But it doesn’t suit everyone.

“We learn that several gurus in Hong Kong…” Who is this Sarah Lee? All right. “We learn that several gurus in Hong Kong promote their exegeses free of charge and promise the followers that they can get rid of their karma once they give their faiths to their guru as they are also promoting internal peace and transcendence and they do not charge for anything. What are they aiming at?” They’re just aiming at controlling you. Just they want to control some people, that’s all; it’s a power game, and that’s what they want to do, it’s a power game. And I’m sure at certain point they must be taking money also. Now the thing is if they were giving peace and they’re talking about karma.

I’m not talking of karma. I’m saying you’ve to go beyond your mind and it has to be connected with scientific ideas, that you have to go beyond your mind. They never say like this, “We’ll get rid of your karmas.” How can you? Who does the karma? Ask them. Ask them five questions, they’ll be all right. They don’t know about ego, they don’t know about conditioning, they don’t know about chakras, nothing they know. They might be cheating you just, I mean it’s just anybody can start something like that but what is the validity. Validity is that do they talk relevantly, do they talk about the inner side, do they talk about the chakras, do they talk about the Kundalini? Now you have got your Kundalini awakened; that should give you faith not in Me but in yourself. You have no faith in yourself, that’s why you start thinking like this. If you have faith in your achievements, what you have achieved through Sahaja Yoga, you won’t ask such questions. All right, so this is over…

There’s somebody, a new yogini, she said she cannot believe in her own feelings. Who’s this one, from Japan? Now see, there’s nothing to believe in your own feelings, no question. You have to believe in your vibrations. You should see what sort of vibrations you get. Supposing you are very much inclined for something. So try to find out of someone, try to find out on your vibrations, you can find out whether it is true or not. Because now you have jumped into an awareness where you know the absolute but it’s not necessary that you have reached that state. But I’ll tell you how to reach that state, it’s different but just now as it is, you have to go beyond your mind. And that is what one has to achieve, all right? So how to go beyond your mind, that I’ll tell you.

Now who’s Pamela Ng? All right, well, she says that when she came first to meditation she was sleeping very well, it was effective after, and all that and then later on she started… Now see, look, if you are just thinking about yourself, vibrations will go away. It’s not given only for your benefit, it’s given for the benefit of everyone. If you’re just worried about yourself the vibrations will disappear. Because vibrations are there to give it to others, to work for others. If you’re not collective enough, you cannot grow. If you do not dissolve into Sahaja Yoga you cannot grow. And then when you don’t grow you go on falling down; you go on falling down, then you’ll lose all these things. So how many people have you given Realization? That’s it. First you start giving Realizations to others then you will understand that how joyous it is to give Realization. It’s not meant for you alone, it’s meant for everyone, all right?

“I believe that there are real gurus and false gurus in this world. If someone follows a real guru but not Sahaja Yoga does this still do any good for him?” Who’s this Christine? Now see, I haven’t met anybody who’s a real guru and who is giving Realization to others, who may be real but he cannot give Realization. That’s the point. So what will they do? You see, they’re very hot-tempered people mostly and they take you to task; they make you work very hard. I haven’t seen anybody giving Realization so far; if you meet anyone, let Me know . I’ll be very happy, pass on.

Mr. Ling, who’s he? Now, this is interesting, the way you’re seeing visions. Have you been to some other master before? No one? No? Now, you see, for this, best thing is to know about Tao which is your speciality, it’s Chinese in which he describes, you see, Tao; Lao Tzu describes the journey through the river Yangtze. I’ve been Myself to see that. So he says on the side or the banks there are beautiful, very beautiful mountains and beautiful trees and it’s so beautiful that you feel like jumping out of the boat and going to the, these gardens and these mountains. But what your aim is to go through this, Tao, means the Yangtze river, towards the river. In the beginning, maybe there are some currents flowing, maybe you might lose faith in yourself. But by the time you reach near the sea, it becomes very silent and you have to go to the sea, that’s the point is. So, you see, all these are there; these are just enticing… It’s all right you see but it’s nothing important because all these will keep you on a mental level. You’ll be always thinking, “What is this vision? What is that?” There’s nothing to be on the mental level, you have to beyond, all right? If you don’t see, you don’t bother about it, they’ll disappear.

These questions are nice. The first one is about confidence, you see and I’m going to tell you about meditation. If you do that kind of meditation you’ll get back your confidence, all right? That’s one point. And then he says if there’s anything like destiny. In Sahaja Yoga you decide your destiny, you don’t have to depend on any destiny. Then it’s true that in Hong Kong is highly polluted and lot of people get allergies and things like that. But Sahaja Yogis should take bandhans so they won’t suffer with any allergies or anything. And also you can use something to cover your nose or something. I know people are smoking so much I Myself, I absorb so much of this within Myself, but this will all go away as far as you are concerned because you’re protected, all right? But the first one I’ll tell you later.

Werner, where’s Werner? Now your eyes are suffering. So very simple is that… All right now what you have to do… What is your digestion problem? You get diarrhea? Constipation. What is your digestion problem? Digestion, what is it? He’s already right-sided. You’re very right-sided person, you see and your eye trouble also come from the same. For the eye trouble that you are doing you have to put ice here, on the left hand side from here to here, and also on your liver, all right? And your right-sidedness has to go, that I’ll tell you how to do it, all right?

This is a nice idea, that they come to your program and then they come to puja and then they disappear. It’s all right, now what can you do about it? There’s no choice, if they want to disappear let them go away. We cannot force them, but maybe, maybe some of the people do not have proper behavior towards them, maybe. So you have to be careful how you talk to them and how you approach them. You should not be aggressive with them and all that. Maybe some of the reasons could be that. So that’s very common, you see, they come and they go away. Because this is the time of Last Judgment. If they want to go to false guru let them go because this is their choice. You don’t have to worry on that point. But I think sometimes, sometimes they leave because they do not do meditation properly, and I’ll tell you what is to be done properly.

All right, now we have to go beyond the mind, as I said it that mind is a myth and we live on a mental level all the time. And that’s why so many questions and so many things they come from your mind. If you reach a state where you are beyond the mind you won’t have any questions because you will be there. Because you’re not there you’re asking these questions. You are there for a short time and then you come down. So how to be more on that level, I’ll tell you. I don’t have that problem. I can be all the time beyond the mind but for you people I’ve tried to find out why, how to make it, to keep you beyond the mind.

Now the best way I told people and it has worked wonders that when you are, wherever you are free, whether you are meditating or not, wherever you are freely standing or doing, try to see what is your mind is thinking. You separate, now because you’re realized souls, you have to be, first of all, connected; if you’re not connected you can’t do this practice. But if you’re connected to the mains then what you should do is to see that your mind is thinking. Now watch your mind. Ask the mind, “Now what are you thinking? Let’s see, what are we to think?” And you will be surprised you’ll go on watching and suddenly you’ll reach a point that you have become thoughtless.

So always watch the mind. What is it doing? What is it thinking? What is it working out? And the mind will just not think because it cannot answer. It cannot answer a realized soul, you see. But for that, you have to be beyond the mind; to begin with you should separate yourself from your mind. You ask questions to your mind. “Now let’s see what are you thinking, sir. Where are you?” In the mirror also you can see, you shouldn’t suffer from narcissism, of course not, but what you have to do is to ask.

You see, if you try to understand how to become thoughtless, the best way is to look at something, now you look at something, say, look at the flowers. Now immediately it will react, your mind will react. Now you try to see what is your mind is saying. “I don’t want to hear, no, I don’t want to hear.” Just say, “I don’t want to hear anything. I don’t want to know anything.” You just want to watch, that’s all. Gradually you’ll grow. You see, this is the system Zen. Try to do it, but it was such a thing, you know, that time, they were no such nice people like you, perhaps. So he had to use other methods to make people go beyond the thought.

For example, I was telling just now about the tea ceremony. For tea ceremony, he would take a bowl of, say, freak, like a freak. Freak, you understand the freak? Freak is a thing which comes out by nature naturally in the cooking. When it is fried it becomes very funny type; that is the freak. It’s not regular. It’s only one piece or something. Somebody who’s Japanese here, who’s come from Japan? You? You people, they like, that’s why freak very much, you see. So, what he said that it is… , you take the bowl in your hand for tea ceremony, that’s the best. So first of all, you sit in a garden, with natural trees and natural fibers of the wood and all that, sitting down. Now you start watching that thing, three times sitting like this and three times like that. And don’t think, that’s the point, don’t think. And then you take that tea; the tea is so sour, so bitter, take quinine raised to the power of hundred and eight. Once you take that, you become absolutely thoughtless; that’s one.

Then they give you a sweet; this sweet is also sweetness, sugar raised to the power of hundred and eight. You just can’t eat it, so you went from one extreme to another extreme; again you become like that, you see, it’s like standing. They put this side and that side and suddenly it works out. But it’s meant for people who already have got Realization, not for people who have not got. That’s why still they’re studying Zen, you know, this tea ceremony. When we went to Japan, you see, in one hotel, they had arranged this tea ceremony and some Americans, they said one couple has to come, they were fighting, “I’ll go, I’ll go.” We have had the experience, so we were keeping quiet, to see what’s going to happen. And one couple came forward and knew they were very jealous of them. They sat on the stage and then they brought the tea; they make it with a very care and all that and gave it to the wife. She drank it and she was stunned, and then they gave it to the husband. Her husband, you know, American after all, he got so angry he threw the bowl. He said, “Damn it! You took so much money from us and what are you giving us?” He gave all kinds of American abuses to them and they came away and everybody started beating the people who had put up the show.

So this is meant for people who really want to go very deep. In Zen we also made a big courtyard filled with sand, with some sort of designs in the sand and they put some stones in it. You are supposed to sit on the edge of that and to look at it without thinking. But normally people start comparing, “It looks like ships, it looks like this, it looks like…” No, you have to just look at it without thinking. There’re many such things he did but nothing worked out with them. There were only twenty-six people who got Realization in the Zen system in the Sixth Century. From the Sixth Century to the Twelfth Century and after that nobody got Realization. But there were very few and that’s why they don’t understand Zen at all. You see, people write Zen because it’s very deep and they don’t understand; so that’s what it is. Now Sahaja Yoga is understood, can be understood by normally educated person, by even uneducated people. And this happens because actualization takes place. Your Kundalini takes an actual ascent.

Now in Sahaja Yoga when people come in, there’re different categories of people also. Some of them come because they think they can get good health; once they get good health they disappear. Then they again get some trouble, they come back, just for good health. So you can’t help, they have very limited desires. Then some people come in Sahaja Yoga for throwing their weight around, you see, showing off their ego, that, “I’m this,” you see, trying to make another group, another this thing. You see, like that also some people come, it’s very common, like a politics, you see. And they try to do it against the leader, against this, “This is wrong with him, that is wrong with him,” and all kinds of things. Thirdly people come but they don’t come regularly to Sahaja Yoga, they do not come regularly to the center. They just keep aloof and after some time they’re lost. They again get some diseases or trouble, then they come back.

So it’s a religious duty of all of you to come to the collective, one thing. The second one is to meditate everyday in the night before sleeping on your mind. Everywhere you go you should be in a meditative condition, in the sense, you should ask your mind what is it thinking. All should come to collective every time they have a program wherever it is. In Delhi you have seen people are really wonderful. There are so many people, at least about, I think two hundred people, of course we have a good center there; two hundred people, every morning they come for meditation, every morning, look at these people. So the quality, we call the pindah, so the quality of a person depends on how much you want Sahaja Yoga. You just want to have all the advantages, you want to do everything.

Like this lady, Sushmita Sen, she got the first prize, she’s a Sahaja Yogini. She’s a Sahaja Yogini and she meditates everyday, everyday she meditates and everyday she used to come in the morning to our ashram in Delhi. She’s a great Sahaja Yogini, I must say, but now she’s in Calcutta and there also she does the same. So the children also, some who are…; this girl child is very highly developed child, this one is. I saw her yesterday, she’s a born realized, and she is the one, she must be meditating, I’m sure. She is a very highly developed person; she’s got it from her last life so she… This kind of children, there are many who are meditating or when they go to school also they become like that. So you have to first of all worry about correcting yourself.

Now, you see, also another kind of people come in Sahaja Yoga they came, they made lots of money, this thing, that thing, see, the greed is on. So if you still suffer from too much greed or hatred or you can call it pride and aloofness and all that, then you must know that still you have to work out. Or if you are very angry type or attached, some people are very attached to their children. So in Sahaja Yoga they learn a lesson also from their children. So one has to be introspective to see, “Are you just, are you satisfied?” Then you can certify yourself that you’re all right.

There’re so many types of people you’ll meet but what you have to see about your own ascent. So I’ve talked about God Realization in My last speech in this thing, so you better listen to that lecture of Mine, for this puja, for the Shiv Puja. So one should not even have ambitions, when you have become a part and parcel of the whole, when you have become the ocean, what is there to be ambitious? It’s all individuality. You have to be a satisfied soul and I would say about Myself that I have to buy for My children, for My husband, this thing, that thing, but I never buy anything for Myself, very difficult, very difficult to buy something for Myself. And somebody says that, “Mother please what will you have?” I don’t know what to say, what should I have. I asked My daughter, “You make all kinds of things for your father, what about Me?” So she said, “You don’t like something in particular, what to make for you, you tell us.”

All these attachments some people have, got attachments to clothes, you see, “What I’ll wear tomorrow, I’ll wear day after tomorrow,” like that. But so spontaneously whatever is available you can wear. And some worried about their past, you see, “I’d a bad childhood,” this, that, and they write about their parents; it’s all nonsense, forget it, you be in the present. Now you are no more a seed, you have to grow. That is something one has to understand in life; that if you have to grow ourselves then what we have to see within ourself what lies, whether that is doing wrong. That is something missing.

Best is to see the good points of others, not the bad points. By that you will gradually develop more good points within yourself. Competition should be in good points. So on one side you have to achieve your self-Realization in a way that you put yourself beyond the mind, one way, through meditation. And the second way is to give Realizations to others. And must attend collective meditation, very important. You have to be active in it. If you are not active in Sahaja Yoga then you lose your vibrations gradually because Divine thinks, “What’s the use of giving to this hopeless case any vibrations.” So you have to work it out, understanding that now you are chosen as the instrument of the Divine. It is not only for your health or for the health of your family or for anything like that. But it is for the good of the others. That’s how you’ll all go very well.

Now diffidence comes through your mind only; mind only gives you diffidence. So to overpower this mind, you must watch and tell him to shut up. Must tell him to shut up. Then you will rise. The proof is that you feel the vibrations. Now, if you ask Me I find the people in Hong Kong are rather right-sided, most of them. So you have to do right-sided treatment for yourself. Every night, about ten minutes, at the most, you have to sit with your right hand towards the photograph and right foot in the water, with a little salt. Normally use cold water, ice also is good but cold water normally but if it is very cold outside, you can use warm water. In this hand (left hand) you must take ice and put it on your liver, right hand towards the photograph. Now, then after that you can put the ice over here, put your hand there. If you do it everyday your stress will go down, everything will be perfect, just sit like this, just now. Heat is going down; no, no, no, put right hand towards Me and the left hand there. You’re left sided, you’re not right-sided; you have to use the candle treatment, all right?

Now some people have both problems. Then you have to put a candle in front of the photograph, put both the feet in the water and sit like this and in both the cases don’t close your eyes. You should put your attention on My Agnya, it’ll be very good for you, for your ascent into the realm of thoughtless awareness. As I love you try to love Me, that’s the best thing.

Lastly, you see, in Sahaja Yoga people come in, they think it’s a sort of a contract with us that we should look after them, their health, their jobs, their everything. This is absurd. The contract is between yourself, with yourself. You have to work it out, all right? This is what it is. So if the mind is asking questions ask it to shut up now. Mind is the worst thing, it is standing between you and reality. (Shri Mataji speaks in Hindi here.)

Now whatever it is, like yours, you see, you give a bandhan to your husband; ask everybody to give a bandhan to him just now, you can give bandhan to him, her husband, Atul is his name. Just give him a bandhan. See, it will work out, you can help, all of you can help. You can help the whole world but you have to be strong, you have to have the energy within yourself. Ha! Good, very good. This is Sahaja Yog, it’s cool. So try to remember what is your real problem; you’re right-sided, all right so just try to cut it off.

I’ll be happy if you could learn some English because I can’t learn so many languages. Deities only understood so far only Sanskrit but now they understand English, thank God! It’s a great credit for the English people. But still English language very limited, very limited. For example “spirit” word they will use for the Atma, they will use it for alcohol, also they will use it for the dead spirits. Such a language, what can you say, what can you explain. And the French is the worst, French is the worst because first of all if you speak French you catch on Vishuddhi. And also in French there are many words missing, of course “spirit” is missing though, no doubt, but also the word “awareness” is not there.

So now I think everybody is happy. Let’s have some music.

(The program continued with bhajans.)

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi