Talk to Sahaja Yogis, Cairo (Egypt), October 26th, 1996

… Some other languages apart from, in my country I know three, four. How many languages should I know? You tell me. [Laughter] They do not say, or course [unsure], isn’t it?
In Russia, from Japan, all over you see so many languages.

But this Philip told me in Japan, the one who is the leader, that they are not against us at all. They are against this ‘OM cult’ which was there. But as he said, “You are a family, you are not a cult”.
They are not against us in Japan. They are very anxious. And also, they were saying, “You should build a temple here of Mother”. I was surprised. They want to make a temple. I am still living and they want to make a temple already. [Laughter]

You see, everybody is fed up of all this nonsense.
When I went to Japan first, ‘baba’ the whole was nothing but Geishas’ houses. Geishas. So, the people were there, from my husband’s office people, they said, “Where to take you? There are only Geishas’ houses”. So, I said, “Take me to Geishas’ houses”. “So, how can you go to Geishas ?”, they burst out. “If you can go, I can also. What’s wrong?”
So, we went there, of course, they told us about them how they laugh and this and that. So, the Geisha – I had lots of bangles on me. So, she looked at them, she said, “It makes a very beautiful sound” I said, “Yes. You want it?” She said, “Yes”. They said, “NO!” All of them. “No, how can you give her them?” I said, “Why?” “They are not auspicious people”.
I was surprised: they knew that doing this Geishas’ work is not auspicious. You see, so there’s already ‘dharma’ within you, the religion is within you. They wouldn’t allow me and they told,
“Don’t touch them, you are pure ladies, you don’t touch them”. They are very normal women, you know. They came and give us food and very properly dressed also. But I was surprised at the Japanese, how they understood the importance of pure life.

Where are you all staying?
Sahaja Yogi: All here, Shri Mataji, in this hotel, all of us, the same hotel Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Where.
Sahaja Yogi (Egyptian): All of us in the same hotel here.
Shri Mataji: Same hotel?
Sahaja Yogi (Egyptian): Yes, we have different rooms.
Sahaja Yogi: He is in another, he didn’t know.
Sahaja Yogi: Me and Heliopolis.

Shri Mataji: Ah! They gave this award to that man and he’s exposed in every newspaper! Horrible things coming out of that! Even yesterday, there was some in the CNN, and the CNN people said that it was a very big mistake on part of these. And they said, “How could they give it to this man who was a criminal?” And all the Eastern countries, you see- do you all saw that?
Sahaja Yogi: No, I didn’t see. I just hear now.
Shri Mataji: Right from Japan-
Sahaja Yogi: I’m very happy hear.
Shri Mataji: To Australia have banned.
Sahaja Yogi: I’m very happy to hear that.
Shri Mataji: It’s very unusual, the whole thing is happening in such a way, you can’t believe it. Actually, you see, they don’t believe in God. They don’t believe in spirituality. They can’t understand
Because when C.P. went there and gave me the book, there are 12 mayors of very different countries who have said about it. 12 Mayors. And also 2 Prime Ministers of Canada. But still, they give it to this man. And one of them is a what you call, a self-exiled man. He lives in Australia and the Australians told us that he’s begging everywhere, asking for money this thing.

And also, their people were, one third, at the most, were Christians. So, the Catholic people is, they have converted, most of them, very few are left now, who are not converted. And so now they want a separate state for the Catholics. It’s a, all a Catholic Church, sort of a, you can call the mafia- Catholic church.
Sahaja Yogi: They’re just playing into the hands of the church.
Shri Mataji: No, but two of them are Prime Minister. Retired Prime Ministers two of them. Retired Prime Ministers, two of them. One of them is from the Lutheran Church. He’s not a Catholic. But no, I don’t think any Bishop should become a judge. They are not. And two of them are Prime Ministers, retired. But the Swedish Prime Minister took a lot of money for this BO force of this Rajiv Gandhi that we have. I don’t know what sort of Prime Minister they have there, in Norway.

They are very highly placed people to do such a stupid thing that all over the world they are criticized. Nobody even knew where their Timor was.
Sahaja Yogi: Nobody and it matters.
Shri Mataji: You see, they had to give a map.
[Laughter]
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, Shri Mataji, when we heard it in the news, that from East Timor, really, nobody knew where it was.
Shri Mataji: And that too East in such a small little spot, in the corner of something.

But when C.P. went there, you see, the man who saw all that and he said, “Oh, ‘baba’ this is definite 100%”. But of course the committee will have to decide but if you ask me it’s complete.
What is it?
Sahaja Yogi: It’s the telephone.

Lady: I have, Shri Mataji, I have read some very sharp criticism.
Shri Mataji: Come here. I can’t hear you. My ears have gone off in the plane.
Lady: I have read some very sharp criticism of this Nobel Peace Prize being given to this man.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Lady: I read very sharp criticism of the fact that the Peace Prize was given the way it was given. The main idea was that the Nobel committee has become so political that they no more judge.
Shri Mataji: Of course. It was just to fight the Indonesian people. First not only political, but also they very fundamentalist because they wanted to give it to these two Catholics. This is obviously why should you support them? They should give it to these people in Ireland.
[Unclear sin fail ?] Why not give to them?
If, by Revolution, if you are going to bring peace, I’ve never seen it happen. It’s the evolution but they don’t want to accept. Maybe, I think, you see, they might have heard from these French, they call us cult and all that. But there is a proof of it, you see.

They have made a beautiful brochure, no doubt of it. C.P. is hoping against hope still. He felt very sad. I was- it’s all right, what does it matter? But imagine in this light, whatever it is, how these people are exposed to such an extent horrible criticism? How can you imagine so many countries banning this man?
Lady: I think this was the best way for the Noble Committee, whether it’s for peace or for anything else, to make a bad reputation for themselves because the critics are so sharp especially for this Peace Prize, that I think next time they probably will think 10 times before they decide who to give it to.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Lady: I think next time, probably, the Committee will have to think very hard before they decide whom to give it to because they are being very badly criticized now.
Shri Mataji: They are shameless, I think.

You see, this man, we have got record about him. It came from Australia that he murdered people his own wife has said it. I mean, if they want to give to a murderer, how can they give me, I’m not a murderer.
[Laughter]
If that is the qualification! [Unclear] It’s going to be very difficult for all of you. I am on the opposite line.

But there is another thing that’s happening is, there is a peace conference in India. All sponsored and helped and, I mean, originated by a nephew of Nobel who lives in America. And he wants to start a very big university called Peace University, in Alandi which is the place where Shri Dnyaneshwara took his samadhi. He was only 23 years of age, Dnyaneshwara, and he took his samadhi.
This fellow went to Alandi and then he felt something about it. And he just decided to have a Peace University.
But the man who is arranging is a man, [unclear] his name is. He is a man who has done a lot for this Alandi place and all. But he not that honest also. It doesn’t matter.
He has written to me with all protocol, everything, to Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi and all that. 3 letters he has written, “Please come and attend this conference and bless us and enlighten us” and all that. And also he has invited C.P. And he sent words with Yogis that, “If C.P. can take over, it will be a nice idea for this University”. I said, “C.P. will take them to task, they should know he is an extremely honest man”. They don’t know about him, I think.
He wouldn’t like a Hanky Panky. So, there will be a problem. But they have invited him. And they have invited also few people, all those who can come. So, those who are coming now for the Tour, I thought if they could come a little earlier, they could attend this conference. Also ask Philip also to come,
because they want to know about Kundalini.
Dnyaneshwara, imagine of all the – after so many years, they have seen the samadhi of Dnyaneshwara. And he wants us to talk on Dnyaneshwara, his philosophy. And to start this university. Now Dnyaneshwara has talked about Kundalini very clearly, on the sixth chapter. Not that full knowledge, but at least he said that, “That’s one which does the job”. Sixth chapter in his Dnyaneshwari.

What’s his name, is it Nobel? But something, I forgot the first name. He and his wife, both are very anxious both are very anxious to start this. And they want to give a lot of money but also they want money to be collected. So, there was the man who is the director of this university. His name is Ravi, South India, lives in USA. It is that I can’t understand why Sahaja Yoga doesn’t spread in America. They are money oriented people. They are not Spirit oriented. “Ah”. Then he said, “If you charge money, they will come to if you. If you ask for money, they will come”. “So, what should I, how should I ask?” He said, “At least, when they are coming for the program, you must charge them. More heavily you charge, the better it will be. All that, [unclear]”. I said, “I’m sorry to say, but such people are useless for me, absolutely. Those who are going to come here because they paying money I don’t want them”. But you know, I was playing with him, a little bit maya. I said, “All right, tell us how much we should charge”.
[Laughter]
The poor fellow! In the meanwhile, I raised his Kundalini. So, he went away home. He said, “I don’t know what is happening to me. My life is changing, this thing, that thing”. I said, “Now tell me how much money you gave me”. It’s a silly idea. I said, “I don’t want such stupid Americans who want to come because I’m charging them now money. Such stupid people are not wanted in Sahaja Yoga”. You see, they say, there is no credibility if it is free, according to their ideas. I said, “If they think they can pay for Divinity, they should understand that it is not possible”. I think, basically they don’t understand what is Divinity. I think, basically.

Now so many seekers are there. Like mad, they are seekers. But all of them have lost their head. They don’t know why they are seeking. The other day I read one book called Peaceful Warrior, of one young boy getting that seeking within. And then, he, somehow, meets a Zen guru. And that Zen guru really tortures him, makes him run for miles together, do this do that. Ultimately, he achieves, he says so. My granddaughter was reading that book. She said, “I’m so angry with guru, I would blast him. What sort of a guru he was, the way he was torturing this boy?” I said, “Zen system is not that bad. But I don’t know what they used to do. If this is the case, it’s better not to do Zen”. But I’ve seen those who follow Zen, it’s difficult to give them Realization.

They are seekers, you see. What I’m saying, even if they go to Zen, it’s a seeking. And all the seekers are to be blessed. And definitely they are seekers. There were people from Rajneesh. Now they have come out. Some other people like ? and all that. Already there are all, poor things, have been ruined. I told this Ravi, “They have no money to pay now. It has all being taken away by these gurus”.
[Laughter]

He said, “If you charge more, the more will come”. There’s this Dalai Lama, he is a big beggar you know all around the world, he is a famous beggar going around.

And all the actresses and actors called him for a conference and gave him lots of money. And this lady, Mother Teresa, very hot tempered.
[Laughter]
And Rajesh copies her. They said, “You must call her, we must meet her, this thing”. All the Western people. So, for this conference he called her. So, she said, “You know, when you eat your food”, all the time, she is shaking like this and “When you eat your food, think of the poor. And when you are going out to enjoy life, think of the poor”. Means you should be miserable actually, minimum. And after some time they found all the people who were there, they started crying. I said, “Crocodile tears, will they give us some money?”
[Laughter]

So, we have to look forward to those days, when we’ll have a nice place on the bank of river Ganges.
Already, in Delhi, they have started a big project, you know about that?
Sahaja Yogi: We didn’t know.
Shri Mataji: Ah, in Delhi, they have started a very big project and they have got flats, they are offering for, I don’t know how many lacks of a piece. It’s not much because what they are offering in 6 lakhs you can’t get 46 for [unclear] Out of which they said, “Mother, we will be getting money more and then we’ll build a big huge [unclear] place for meditation. “Go ahead”. So, they are selling it out and – but to foreigners also, they would like to sell. But I said, “They would prefer to be in the Himalayas. Because Delhi, Delhi is a very hot place, you know”. So, they said, “Mother, then what to do?” I said, “You are getting all the Indians”.I said, “I can buy two flats for my daughter’s contribution”. But it was such a venture and they got it for a song [unsure.]
And they got the permission from the government.
[Unclear]
Sahaja Yoga works in beautiful ways, you know. Especially these East Tamul people, like this, they have achieved such fame that’s not easy for anybody.

There have been revolutions and revolutions. Say, in France, there was such a big revolution so what? They are worse than now the kings of those days, drinking. I tell you why they are angry with us, French are mostly, because we say we should not drink. Because all their wine will be wasted. All that business will go off. It’s a good way. So, if you can put some vibrated water, it won’t ferment.
[Laughter]

Once, I went to Switzerland, you see, and I looked at all these fields of this growth of grapes. That year they said, “It did not ferment at all”. They didn’t know what had happened.

French are like that. In my book, I have written about them. Little bit, not much but have you seen my book?

Lady: I read the first edition.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Lady: I read the first one Shri Mataji, not the revised one. I don’t have the revised one.
Shri Mataji: The revision is still on and on and on. But now, I think, the revision will be coming very soon. They make so many mistakes, so many mistakes! Spelling mistakes these stupid Indians, you know. They don’t know how to keep it all right and they know English very well. They gave it for editing to somebody who knows English very well, you see. I don’t know what happened then lastly I asked my daughter.

She is a MA first class, to see all that. She said, “I can’t understand all these mistakes, how they have come”. Then she corrected all that. Then she said, “Mother, certain things you have written which Indians won’t understand. I said, “What? ” “Like Greek tragedy, they won’t understand what it means”. Because we don’t have that pattern, there. All right. I said so many things of the
West, you can’t describe. So horrible! Like what happened in Belgium, how can you describe in that book. Shocking, absolutely shocking! I mean, the way they do things in the West, is too much! Unbelievable! It’s impossible. You know what happens to them?
Reading another book, American, that man was describing how to get rid of this fear that you have that you may abuse your child. Really. It’s very difficult. “I was suggesting myself that you should slowly touch him and see what happens”. Poor man, he was feeling so nervous and miserable for nothing at all!
First, all in the – even Italians, whenever they played football and anybody made a goal, means, you see, they have achieved that heaven, they used to just hug, go on hugging each other. Now they don’t. They just touch like this, you see. But they are so excited that they run out of the field.
[Laughter]

It’s so unnatural [Laughter]. If they are happy they can’t even hug!
Sahaja Yogi: It’s the English disease, Mother.

Shri Mataji: They lost this time I think, Italians.
Guido: Oh.
[Laughter]

Shri Mataji: I didn’t know that they had lost. But I was watching the news and in that, they showed the Italians feeling very shy. So, I said, “What’s the matter?”
Guido: Big tragedy!
[Laughter]
Big tragedy!
Shri Mataji: That’s why I prefer, you see, Cricket. A very quiet nice game. There is no problem in that. We, in India, wan against the Australia, but lost against South Africa. So, C P said, “It is the best team. South Africa is the best team. I mean, you become really sporty with that. You understand the sport. Because if you cannot enjoy in the game another person, another group and you just identified with your group, then it’s not a sport. Isn’t it? You should be able to enjoy another person also. But Italians don’t know who is a good player in other countries, they don’t know. No.

You know, this gun is at me all the time, is it?
[Laughter]
But it might get only light and light and nothing else. Then what will happen?
You can’t have pity [unsure].
You got some miraculous photographs, I’m told.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji. We have.
Shri Mataji: They might say that we have done it through computer projection.
Yes, what’s the news?
Sahaja Yogi: They ask if everything is OK.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogi: They are asking Mother’s name and if everything is OK.
30:03
Shri Mataji: Mother is good.
Sahaja Yogi: They ask-
Shri Mataji: Loudly now.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, yes. They ask if you need anything.
Shri Mataji: Now, what do I need now, you see?
[Laughter]
Sahaja Yogi: Everything is OK.
Shri Mataji: What is that? Absolutely first. You see, I a person who can live anywhere, sleep anywhere, eat anything. I don’t have all the sense Of course, I appreciate beautiful things.
But I don’t want to have them, I appreciate.
What is that?
Sahaja Yogi: Diner.
Shri Mataji: Eating?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: All right.

{End of recording]