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VIP Conference in Central Park, New York, USA. 15 June 1999.
Starts at 1:03 on video
Informal talk in an Indian restaurant
[Laughter] That he realized. You see, it is not that you are doing anything, it’s the Divine that is doing, that is doing all the things and once this detachment comes, you don’t get into funny ideas, you see, and this quarrelling business starts with that.
Now we have, you must have heard, that we have Sahaja Yoga working in so many countries. Every year I hear one country is added. Now the thing is, most beautiful thing for Me to see all of them together and I was amazed, they come from all kinds of communities, from all kinds of countries, from all kinds of religions, from everywhere they never fight, never fight. Of course they pull each others legs, have lot of fun and all that. And they are always joyous, very happy. Now why is it? What is happening?
Now the first fundamental truth is that all of us, whether you are white, black, brown, yellow, any colour, whatever community, whatever country you may be coming from, all of you have one thing, that is Kundalini, this power within you. It doesn’t differentiate. Only we mentally differentiate like this, like this one is like this, this one is like that. And we have different, different groups again that’s our mind which gets into distinctions, but for Kundalini who is your Mother, individual Mother, is reflected in every person wherever you may go. I mean we have people in very remote places like Benin, you see, the people from Benin you know. And then we have people from Eritrea, imagine, the Minister, the Prime Minister of Eritrea’s Sahaja Yogi. But they are very humble people, they are very humble, and they take to treaty that: “of course we’r going for the peace”. They have to have peace. Now how do you get peace within yourselves? That I will explain to you, but frankly the subject is very wide but the best thing is for you to get your Realization.
Peace is like this, what happens is that we go on reacting. Now for example I’ve come here now [inaudible] [Mother looks at the furnishings] trying to see from where it has come, which part of India, now whether it is in harmony or not, and all these things, My mind starts working.
Then I start thinking how much it will cost if I have to buy it. Now supposing it belongs to Me then I would be much more worried that nobody spoils it, nobody pulls it out, you see it’s like this.
So reactions can be of two types, that should I worry about it? Or sometimes you do feel happy. But all the time the mind is active, it is reacting all the time. You cannot witness the whole thing. But what happens, that when Kundalini rises your thoughts which are coming from the future and the past are all there, on your head. And they are bombarding you. But when Kundalini rises she elongates the thoughts and there’s a space created in between. Now this space is the place where we become thoughtless, and once you have become thoughtlessly aware, which Jung has talked about, Jung has talked. This thoughtlessly awareness was stayed, when it happens, you become absolutely peaceful. Because you are in the present, you are not in the past nor in the future, but you are in the present. And when you are in the present, what you feel that peace of a witness: you witness, you see everything and it’s like a picture that slowly comes to you. Your memory becomes just like a photographic memory [inaudible] and you see everything so clearly whenever you want to have.
It’s very simple, for small things, for big things, you don’t have to worry about your memory. I’m very old according to the time I was born [Laughter] but My memory is excellent. I mean, I must say that I don’t know how people forget things but I don’t. If I see somebody’s face I’ll definitely remember everything. Maybe names I may little bit get confused because you know what names are like. People give whatever name they feel like, has no meaning, at least in India names have meaning so we can remember. But other names sometimes are so funny, so long, so short, that you don’t know how to remember. But that’s not the thing, the main thing is that you are kept all the time absolutely alert. Alert about everything. Actually, if that alertness comes into us, then we will be alert also about ourselves. Why are we doing this?
Say you go to some newspaper. My experiences have not been very good in India they have not been kind to Me at all, but they should see what is their responsibility. Are they responsible? Do they feel that whatever is the truth are they representing? Or are they trying up to make up a story, something bombastic, something sensational, something which is not true. So first thing should be, that we have to think that we will know the truth and we’ll keep the truth, we’ll talk the truth. But for that you don’t have to go to the court with your hands on the Bible, or a Gita, but you have to say yourself on your heart. And it just happens you can’t do anything wrong. Because you see the power of truth is great. It will keep you all the time in so much in very joyous mood. It gives you joy.
Joy is singular, it is not like unhappiness and happiness, joy is singular. You are in joy and that joy is of love. Love and affection and compassion, everybody’s heart is full of it. But we don’t open our heart, we are so afraid you know, if I open My heart what will happen, this thing. But it doesn’t mean the perversion. Now, because we have not expressed our true love, it’s getting perverted. Most of your problems come from that perversion. If you could open the heart of the people in the right way it will give you that joy which is described in all the scriptures. I am not against any religion, against anything, but I must tell you the religion has taken a new course. If the religion becomes power orientated, money orientated, then it’s not a religion. It has to be Spirit orientated. I must tell you frankly, if it is not Spirit orientated it’s not a religion, absolutely, it has to be Spirit orientated. Now, in any religion, whatever it is they have, every religion, they have said that you have to know yourself. Everybody has said it and the time has come. This is a special time when people are going to get their Self-Realization.
My contribution to all this is only very simple that, I’d tell that they give one Realization to one person, and go on like this, would not be of any help because they’d crucify that person, or kill that person, torture that person. People don’t want to see anybody outstanding you know. So we also they are trying to trouble, but it’s all right, after all they are ignorant, I don’t mind. [Laughter]
Now, so this actual understanding of the whole thing should be such that if you rise above your awareness, the awareness itself gets enlightened. You can feel vibrations you can easily say who is a Realized soul, who is not a Realized soul. That’s how I said that William Blake was a Realized soul, Abraham Lincoln was a Realized soul, because you can feel the vibrations. They are dead but still you can feel. You can feel vibrations from so many things that you can feel that this is the place where some great man must have lived, that’s why there are vibrations. It’s not a myth it’s actualization. It just happens you can see the actualization of the baptism you can call it and actually it happens. It’s not just talking, saying this, that, money collection, but it is the wine [blood of Christ] within us which is awakened.
All of us have that, so why not get it? We all have it.
And then you can’t pay for it. You can’t pay for love can you? How much have you paid God who runs our heart? Nothing. In the same way it just works. It’s a living process and every living process is [spontaneous?]. And it has no distinction between any kind of personality, they have to be just human beings. And there are so many children also nowadays born as Realized souls.
I was surprised in Dallas now some Sahaja Yogis have started looking after abused children. I mean this is something I can’t understand, the perversion to the last ! But these children are Realised souls, that’s why they’ve tortured, because they are Realised souls. So they couldn’t bear it so they have tortured. These children are so sweet now, they are always waiting for Sahaja Yogis to come and talk to them. The people said what have you done ? What is so special about you that these children are all the time waiting, asking when are they coming, when are they coming? Just see how much cruelty would do in the name of corrections and things. Actually it’s a sinful act, the way we are disciplining ourselves and disciplining others.
Now all these things are going on around us and we see the world, sometimes you feel that this world will be destroyed or what will happen. It’s not going to be destroyed, after all the one who has created knows how to save it also. So it won’t be destroyed but some may be destroying themselves. Actually we destroy ourselves, God will never destroy us, that’s one thing for sure. But if we want to destroy ourselves we have freedom, we can do what we like. Only we human beings have the freedom. We can save ourselves or we can save others.
It’s such a tremendous thing but in America somehow or other, I’ve not been very successful so far. So it’s the first time we have such a meeting here and I’ve never met the press anywhere also, in America.
But only, in any other place now from, somebody has come from Turkey. Every week they are publishing about Me, in the front. Imagine in Turkey we have 2000 Sahaja Yogis, they are Muslims. So why in America it doesn’t work out? I don’t know. Because there is no sensation in it, that’s of course very true, no sensation of any kind. You don’t jump, you don’t do anything. Just simple happening, where you are sitting you just get it. It’s relaxation, complete relaxed temperament. And all the things that are written in that – whatever they have given you, is absolute truth. There’s nothing that is exaggerated and there are many more things you have to know. But please humble down a little bit and see for yourself that you get it.
All right? I don’t want to speak long because they said there are some people who want to ask Me questions. So I would like to spare some time for you to ask Me questions. But the one thing, you see, don’t go the way you go about with other journalism, like asking Me why your hair are black, why your hands are like this, why you wear, I mean all sorts of things. You know I am a married woman. [Laughter]
So in a normal way you should ask Me questions. I am not a politician, I have nothing to do with your politics I tell you. This is no politics, I don’t call it. We have to have divine politics. And divine politics is such, now with all these organisations, so called, of Sahaja Yoga there is no organisation. We have no secretariat, we have no officers, we have nothing like this. It just works. We don’t have to do anything because there’s collective consciousness. We are all connected with each other. It just works.
You know, you’ll be amazed how things are working out now we are having a programme in one place, Canojaharie they call it. I am just sitting there, I’m doing nothing, but everything is working out. Everything. There was not even a single roof there. Every thing has worked out. People have come all over the world to America. They are so concerned about America because always I said I don’t know what’s wrong with America, Sahaja Yoga, it doesn’t work. You see, I told them don’t go after this guru, he’s not all right, don’t go after that person, they didn’t like it: why should I say such a thing? Now all of those gurus have made a big money big, big money, some of them have died, some have run away, some are in the courts, all this. But they don’t like. But I’m not a newspaper person that I’ll go on praising everybody or criticizing anybody. What I am trying to tell you, the truth is that you’d better find yourself. You’d better know your value. You’d better know that God has made you for a special purpose and these are the special times that they call as Last Judgment.
This is the time you have to judge, and you will be judged. You will be judged. If you are in the spiritual life, alright, if you are not, forget it. It’s like that, it’s so simple as that. You have to know yourself and get rid of all your nonsensical ideas, also all these artificial problems.
I hope I have been able to talk to you nicely, but as I told you, that it nothing but Agnya [?]. Now, have love and compassion. But it is not mixed up with something perverted. It’s not mixed up with something which is very localised or maybe something like a love affair, no, no, it’s nothing. It is not also any identification. Now I’m an Indian or you are an American or you are something, it makes no difference at all, we are all human beings and that’s what we realise within ourselves, that it’s not true. These are all- God made these lands not to create problems, but to love each other. And this is very important today, as you can see, for the emancipation of the world, for the emancipation of human beings. And to give them love, joy, which is their right! So Sahaja Yoga is: “sahaja” means “saha”, born with you. “Saha” is with, “ja” means born. Born with you is this. I should say the right is a very, very, very fundamental right that you get your Realization is “yoga”, union with the Divine. This is your right to get it, everybody has this right to get it. And then you will realise what have you got. Before that, you are still on a level which is not subtle. So I would request you to take to this Realization and also ask Me questions. So if you want you can ask Me questions, first to begin with.
Question of a first lady: [Inaudible]
Sahaja Yogi : She would like to know where is the hospital in India.
[Shri Mataji laughs]
Shri Mataji: You see what I would say, in a way it is both. [Laughter]
So you see the hospital now we have in India. I started this hospital long, long time back, I think better – [Shri Mataji asks a question in Hindi]
Sahaja Yogi answers.
Shri Mataji: Acha, eight.
And you see actually with got a great doctor, high doctor and he’s a Realised soul. He got Realization and I cured his wife, I cured this main doctor by Sahaja Yoga. So he took to it and this hospital, he is running there and we don’t charge for medicine, for treatment, for anything, but for stay. That is only for one bed 300 rupees, 10 dollars for 1 day.
[Shri Mataji asks aside] 10 dollars,
[Shri Mataji asks aside] 8 dollars I’m sorry. And for the room, the air conditioned, bathroom, but for the room only we charge 1000 rupees, that’s all. But otherwise for the doctors, for the nurses, for the services, for the treatment, we don’t. Because this treatment is not done with medicines, you know, the Indian medicines are so dangerous, you take one medicine God knows what reaction you will get. You go to another doctor, you have to end up picking out of your teeth, eyes, ears everything. So, it’s not like that.
It is only we work on the chakras, on the centers that we have shown here. On the centers, what is the center? Every person has different centers problem. Then we see if they’re suffering by over activity or by, we can say, inactivity. There are two types of patients. One are over active and some are possessed by inactivity. So these two type of people actually are there because of the two sympathetic nervous systems. Now of course doctors have started accepting, when I was studying they did not know that the left sympathetic is different and the right is different. But still they don’t know anything about parasympathetic, I must tell you very frankly. Parasympathetic we’ll only know through Sahaja Yoga. It’s very simple, it’s very, very simple.
Same first lady: Where is this hospital?
Shri Mataji: It is very near Bombay, called as New Bombay. And so many people have been there, have been cured and they have been helped. I don’t keep the list of that but I am really amazed how people are coming in. They find it very cheap, you see, the whole place also. And looked after with love, with compassion, with love, it’s the main thing.
Same first lady: My first question was how does one get the Realization?
Shri Mataji: That we will try just now, all right, after questions. It’s spontaneous, you don’t have to do anything, very spontaneous. You all look so loving, you all can get it.
Any other questions?
Second lady: Why do think that Americans seem to be more resistant to getting their Realization?
Sahaja Yogi: Why Americans, you think, are resistant to Realization?
Shri Mataji: I think they are very great. [Shri Mataji laughs]
I think they think they’re on top of the world already. [Laugter]
You have to come to – [Shri Mataji shows Mother Earth] – down.
Land up here. [Unsure]
It is high, but it’s temperament. Even in India if somebody gets lots of money, he floats in the air. You just can’t talk to that person.
Very common, money goes into head, it’s money orientation. Also power goes into head. You see immediately they sit on the horse. All these things, that’s why this head is to be crossed over. Important!
Third lady: [Asks a question on what to do about violence and crime] …So we need a way to show them how to surrender the violence..
Sahaja Yogi: The people she works with are people who are suffering from poverty, violence, crime, drugs, so what is the best way to reach them?
Shri Mataji: You see for poverty they are ways of working it out. Poverty, there are ways of doing it. And also now, for example, in India I have started a big school for children who failed in the eighth class. To give them vocational training, in India we don’t we have. We have generous people, no doubt, now we don’t need money just now, we are, we are all right.
These children are taken from about, say, they’re from fourteen to sixteen years of age, who have failed in life so far. So we teach them. Like we don’t have plumbers in India, here also if you call a plumber you’d better find out with the bank how much will you have. [Laugter]
So in the same way we have problems of that and also, see for example, carpentry. Indians used to do all the carpentry with their hands, you see, but because of machinery that trade is gone now. So we have people who have to learn now, how to do it with their machinery, if you give them machinery. So we are going to teach them carpentry, driving, we can’t get drivers there very well. But they are not very highly paid people in any way, but at least they’ll be paid something. And other crafts like that.
Then another thing is that we should – like what we are doing in India is to find out what the poor people make. For example, My father was a lawyer and he used to go to a very far fetched village, for a case he was there. And there I found very, very, very poor people. They had no houses, they used to live in the trees, because there were animals and things you see. And also they used to wear only one cloth, ladies would wear two above. Cloth, only cloth they used to cover themselves. And very poor! And that time only, I really felt like crying for them. So now I decided that I’ll start export business, imagine Me doing business. I can’t even count receipts. But I started the business, so called, and the first thing I started was to ask- I asked My brother to go and see in that village what sort of people are there, if they still making the terracotta. Very creative, very creative, very beautiful. He said they are still making. And some of them are Greeks, you know? When Alexander came to our country they stayed back and they are there. And what they are making, they call it bell metal. No one makes this in the whole world that sort of a thing. I said all right, we have exported now to America also, last in America, because America you don’t know what they would like but somebody has dared to ask for it, I said: “All right, I’ll send”.
So that also we have exported to America and it’s working out well, she said it’s working out very well here. Because poor people are very creative, they are very creative people. And they should not be given alms, it’s a wrong idea. Because if you give them alms, for example we have so many developments coming from these UN and all that, they will go in a well, they will dig a well. All right.
Then what happens? So much money inflation comes in they take to drinking, this, that and also that well is not looked after. But make them make a well, let’s see. They should try to make a well themselves, see, working for them, so they’ll look after this well. So that is how we have started the village, we can do it, and the village craft in India is tremendous. But they don’t know how to export, you know. What they are exporting is vans or motorcycles or something like that.
You see what we have in the villages is a well-done hand-made. Now here you go anywhere and they say: “this is hand-made”. To us what is hand-made? Everything is hand-made only!
But they say: “this is hand-made”, “this is hand-made”. First, I used to be shocked, cause hand-made people thought: “they make others buy it”.[Unsure] And you know, these hand-made things we have such a trillon, [Unsure] in the poorest of poorest countries you see, like Benin you see, what embroidery! You have to just guide them, tell them what to do. You know, unless and until you have that love for them, you cannot dispel. Also, if they don’t know anything and you tell them: “you make this”, they’ll make.
Now for your information, most of your things are coming from such developing countries.
For example, shirts that you wear, made in USA, are made in Turkey. Then in Tunisia they make very beautiful things which are branded by French, see like that, leather things. So now they are exploiting also, trying to exploit Indian labour also. So exploit the Indian labour and exploit their own people and make money. It’s the trick of the trade is like that. But if you can really get it from these people, poor people what they make. Put them to something which they can do and if you can manage them they’ll they have their self respect.
Actually, despite everything I was saying, Indian poor people have very great respect. Very respectful. They won’t give, do anything cheap. Now supposing you buy from them something like this thing: “this is just clay, clay, this is just our Indian soil, why are you buying? “Like that they talk. I said: “No, it is very valuable, you have no idea.”
So then they will sell it, oherwise they don’t want to sell you they’ll say: “take it.” They are starving, they have nothing, they are very wonderful people. But if you torture them and say you’re poor, you’re poor and all the kind, ill-treat them, they can’t even create. Then they take bowls in their hands and beg their alms.
Like that, you see also, I felt too much for Indian destitute. Especially they are Muslim, most of them are Muslim women, and for them I’ve started a residence for them. Now they can do a lot of work, I was amazed, how they can stitch beautiful clothes for children, with beautiful embroidery, you know. They have a heart, all of them have a heart, and also they want to do now gardening, gardering, they want to do gardening, they want to create flowers. Flowers are so expensive now and we thought that you can export flowers.
So like that, so many things they make, they are so creative. Now here you get, I don’t know what you call that, patchwork, patchwork? Now in India, nobody will wear the patchwork because it’s regarded as something cheapish. Because all these villager women, they make it so beautifully and I saw them selling here, in New York.
First lady: [Asks another question about Mother’s opinion on the equality of women in India, and women’s rights].
Shri Mataji: Now, you see, our style and culture is different, what I’m saying. The thing is that a woman is regarded- I mean not nowadays of course because it’s different- but most of the women in the villages are regarded as sakshat Lakshmi, means Mother Goddess of wealth. So she is to be respected. All the people will respect, you see, nobody dare insult her. That was our society and it’s still in the villages like that. And the women feel very proud that they are housewives. They are proud because we are housewives, we have our children, we can look after our children, we can cook, we can- they are great cooks also.
So you see, what happens, that they know that their area is their household, but they don’t feel suffocated. They don’t feel they are lower down. Like even My husband was here, he’ll tell you about Me. That first thing is I’m a very good housewife, first of all, I know very good cooking, everything. You know to please men you must know how to cook. [Shri Mataji laughs; laughter]
Lady: He can’t go and he will stay all the night home [?]
Shri Mataji: Yes of course! Is a fact, it’s a fact, it’s a fact. And women should not feel low about it. We are praised so much, you see, I was surprised because one gentleman- My husband you know was the foreign, he was the secretary general of the IMO [Maritime International Organisation] International organisation and all that, very international thing you know, very formal and all that, but all his friends used to come to My house to have chicken made by Me. Can you imagine? Such big, big Johnnys, you know, and they used to come down for that. [Laughter]
And I was known all over the world for that, making good chicken. [Laughter] But My husband knows all the list of things that I make very well.
So you see it is something, the women must know our own value. I don’t like to work with men all the time fighting, quarrelling, reacting, it’s money stuff. And I love My own house, My own home. I have two daughters and four grandchildren and now two great grandchildren. And we are all very happily living, enjoying each other, because of love. You see, this competition is because of money, because you have the money, men dominate for money. Maybe in India also they might dominate a little bit for money. But women know how to dominate, because they know how to cook. [Laughter]
That’s it, women know, must know their own powers. Then they will not write for the men’s powers of what? What are their powers? Stupid, you see [Shri Mataji laughs; laughter] I would hate to have so many bosses, so many this thing, only one boss you have to please him, that’s all. Very simple life. But we should accept our own life, we should be proud of it and that really gives you the family life and everything. It’s the woman who is the preserver of the society. This we don’t realise. Woman is the preserver of the society. If she understands she is the preserver, then you can bring round all the men; all the men. Because she is the one who preserves the family, Now, without the family what will men do? They’ll commit suicides.
So you must just pour love in the whole family, the whole atmosphere, how to manage, and you should be very patient and loving and- I mean, I tell you, all My in-laws are at least a hundred in-laws I have, My husband’s family. They will come to see Me, not him. [Laughter]
He is sitting here, I am telling you. They will come all the way to see Me, but not him. Because he was a big man, a formal, this, that, and some of them used to just run away if I was not in the house. So for what we should work? What do we get, this money? Money you have, for what?
Then the woman now must be slavish people, very slavish, because they have to please the boss, please this thing, they have to dress up funny, they have to look nice, they have to look young and all sorts of things, you know, so many enterprises have started this.
But here you don’t care for all these things. If you are a woman in the house, you manage everything like that, and if the husband tries to trouble you, all the family will be after him. [Laughter] Like that, you know. It’s a very safe, it’s very safe and very enjoying and very good.
It’s a – all pervading. In the society, also, everywhere. But these days, people are getting so perverted in a way. I’ll tell you one example. One lady she was the boss, she was the wife of a very big boss, you see, from India. So she came, she- they were to come for a dinner. And in the dinner, you know, they keep places for people there with their names, labels, everything. So she was not there, she was missing. She was very smart, very smart. For an Indian she was overly smart, wearing a very short thing and always wearing her purple and all that, high heels like that. [Mother shows height with her hands.] We quite little who are feeling for her (?). But, you know, I was surprised she was not there, everybody was waiting for her. I mean, on this big formal dinner. So I said, “All right, I’ll go there,” then in the waiting room she was sitting there. I said “What are you doing here?” “They made me sit here.”, “They made you sit here? I can’t understand.” So I asked the manager, “Why did you make them sit there?” They said: “We thought she is his secretary, we never thought that’s his wife.” So the dignity of the wife, you see, if you give up, you are no one. One must understand and the women must understand how powerful they are. In India they are called Shakti, they are called as power. She is.
But you must know how to handle your husband, to handle your family with you and you have to bear a little bit. Of course you have to be patient, you have to bear a little bit, you must know that they are all not yet matured. You smooth all place [Unsure]
But, this struggle that we have here now I find, or in other places, you know, in European places of the women, is absolutely not necessary. We have to change the society.
Now in Sahaja yoga people get married. There are international marriages, out of this, 99% marriages are successful. One percent might fail, because we marry a Russian with an American, American to an Indian, so it’s quite a change and quite a different thing. So can you imagine, how these people have become 99% people who are married. In Sahaja Yoga, are wonderful people, and they have very beautiful children.
What are they like? This one. [Shri Mataji points to someone in the restaurant]
In any other sphere you are working you can ask Me questions.
Sahaja Yogi: [speaks in Hindi]
Shri Mataji: : [Hindi] Acha. I would like to give you Realization. That’s what they are saying, that you give them Realization and I will.
Sahaja Yogi: [In Hindi, he says that the food is ready]
Shri Mataji: Ach, it’s better idea.
He says that tomorrow we are going to have a very big programme. But the hall is small, I must say, it doesn’t matter. It’s such a big city that everything seems to be smaller and smaller. [Laughter]
All right, so for that, if you want your Realization, it’s your freedom is respected, you have to ask for it. I cannot force it, you cannot force it. And if you want to go away, you can go away, it’s completely. Because if you have to have ultimate freedom, this freedom has to be respected. And this freedom is that, if you want you can have it, if you don’t want, then don’t have it. They are saying that you all are invited to that program. Where are we having?
Sahaja Yogini: In Town Hall. Tomorrow in Town Hall, at 7.30. It will be a wonderful program where you will have your Self-Realization. That’s on 43rd St. I think everyone must know where Town Hall is….”
Shri Mataji: But I must tell you one thing. You don’t have to pay, you don’t have to stand on your heads, nothing you have to do. You just sit on your seats, or on the ground, doesn’t matter. That’s the way of that because I told you: “It’s your fundamental right.”
Sahaja Yogini: I will ask you just in one second to join me in thanking Shri Mataji…
Shri Mataji: I hope you ? for all you are all in [Inaudible]
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi