Press Conference. Sutton Place Hotel, Vancouver (Canada), 27 June 1999.
QUESTION: My first question to you is what is yoga?
Shri Mataji: Yoga is actually it means that union with the Divine, with the Divine Power which surrounds us. We are not aware of it, but it is described in all the religions that there is an all-pervading power of Divine Love and that is what one has to get connected to. That is real yoga.
The other yogas that people talk of Patanjali are for thousand s of years, long time back. He started to give this yoga when first the physical thing with this should come, one thing. Then mental fitness should come. Then emotional fitness should come. How to establish that was the point. And it used to take a lot of time and the tradition was that only one person needs to get the Self Realization. The reason may be, perhaps I think, they used to, first of all, evaluate the personality and then give Realization because if you give to anybody else and they might misuse i ÿt and try to exploit people. That would be another reason. Another thing was formerly people used to all torture all the saints. Any where in the world, if you see the history, saints are all tortured. Real saints, they are all tortured. So maybe they might be afraid that they should be so prepared, so equipped that they can bear all the torture. That might be the reason. But it was the traditional way. They used to give Self Realization to only one person, but when I was born I found out that it doesn’t work if you have Self Realization for one person and time has come to give en masse Realization. So what I did only thing that I put in as my effort that I worked on the various peoples, personality and their kundalini and tried to find out what are the permutations and combinations that torture these people. Why can’t they get Realization? And by 1970 I found out the method which it is very easy to raise the kundalini of all the people.
That is how it is working. So Sahaja Yoga means saha means with , ja means born. Born with you is the right actually it’s the right or everybody [???] to get this yoga.
QUESTION: The following question is that what is the benefits of raising one’s kundalini? …
Shri Mataji: Oh, immense, immense because when kundalini goes through the six centres, these centres are responsible for our physical, mental and emotional being and, of all the things, they are responsible for our physical being also.
So when this kundalini passes through that, then she nourishes these centres, she integrates them and then connects the whole thing to the all-pervading power so that that power starts flowing in the spinal cord in the parasympathetic nervous system. As a result, all this sides, aspects of life completely improve. Sometimes they are completely cured of physical ailments of mental troubles and emotional imbalances, but, of all the things, the spirit enters into your attention and, when you are enlightened, you can what is destructive for you and what is constructive for you û and you have the power to accept whatever is constructive. That’s how it works. You can imagine immense benefits… [???].
QUESTION: How do these benefits affect our families and our friends?
Shri Mataji: Of course. Because it is the power of love and compassion. You see, what is the trouble with human beings is that they have evolved from the animal so this evolution is not complete, I think, as human beings also. But whatever it is, all these horrible things that are lingering within us and our personality are also coming from our heritage. Then also we acquire because we think too much, we acquire lots of things and our orientation also changes from other orientation like food, but we become sort of great greedy people. We become very money-oriented and the whole system changes to a different line, but these lingering things are still there, so, with that also, we have jealousy, aggressiveness. All those things are actually our inheritance. So, as a result, you become a person who can see things, who can watch things and not react. That’s the greatest benefit I think….
QUESTION: It’s a sense of freedom.
Shri Mataji: Absolutely. Because you become so peaceful, absolutely peaceful. It’s like this the other day I gave the example that if you’re standing in the water, the waves are rising, then you are afraid of the waves. But supposing you get onto a boat, then you can watch those waves. You become peaceful about it. But supposing you also know how to swim, you can jump without any fear and save so many people.
So this is how Sahaja Yoga works. It’s complete freedom and freedom which is full of wisdom, the light of your spirit. So you see what work you are doing is right, whatever you are doing is without fear.
That’s what Christ has said, Know thyself. You have to know yourself. You don’t know what you are. And that’s why all these problem are there.
QUESTION: Maybe there are other people who want to ask questions too, but until they ask, I’ll keep asking questions.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
QUESTION: Did you do any work with Gandhi?
Shri Mataji: I didn’t do work, as such. I was a little child of seven years and I stayed with him and he found out about me. He knew because he was also a realized soul, but very much full of disciplines and things like that. So people never understood that side of Gandhiji. But he was a very spiritual man and he loved children and I used to if I did any work, I used to take out his temper some time, entertain him.
But actually, you see, with him, he wanted me t
o find out how he should write the different bhajans. In his bhajanori [???] they had a book, written down all the hymns, so in what series we should write. So according to different centres, I told him that you have to awaken on the centres, so you [???] one after another, see, first for this, second for this, third for this, but we used him.
So that way, he used to talk to me on spiritual life. You must have heard about another, Lal Bahadur Shastri, our [???] great great should say he was a very great political leader, as well he was our prime minister. He was also a realized soul. So he [???] discuss with me, so he said, Let us get this Pakistan straight, then we can start Sahaj Yog, but I started just after his death, I started Sahaj Yog.
QUESTION: Does it rel ate to other traditions, such as bhakti yoga or karma yoga or does it encompass all those?
Shri Mataji: Karma Yoga?
QUESTION: Bhakti yoga.
Shri Mataji: Bhakti Yog. Now, for that, today I already spoke that Shri Krishna was a very clever man and he thought, There’s no use telling these people straight forward stuff because men are such that you tell them something, they go round and round, so best is to put them round and round so that they come to the point.
In the first place I said about bhakti yog, which was very interesting. He said, You do bhakti. You give me flowers. You can give me fruits. You can offer water to me. But you must do ananda bhakti meaning Ôwhen there is not the other.’ That means when you become realized souls, which nobody understood, you know. But we are doing a no ananda bhakti, because unless and until you are connected, how can you do bhakti. It’s a simple thing. So they are praying [???] bhakti all the time.
The other day I met somebody from the Hare Rama. They said, We love Indian culture. It’s very peace-giving, this, that. Wearing sari’s very good and all that. But I said, Do you think you have received or achieved what you had to do? With doing all these things, do think is the end of it? What about Indians? Where are they? And we have to go further, that is, to achieve that ananda bhakti, you have to do that. And the lady was quite convinced that whatever you may try, these things, you should find out what did you get out of it. Did you get your Self Realization? Then it’s very usele ss. And they realized, she realized these things. But they still have to achieve that state of Self Realization. Like that, you see, this was the work of [???].
Then about karma yoga, [???] straight was. He said that what you’re working [speaks in Hindi]. Do whatever you like, but don’t expect the results [???]. [speaks in Hindi]. Don’t expect any results or any benefits or any profits out of it. Whatever you want to do, you do without any colour, without any fruits. Another this is befooling because it cannot do any work without seeing those fruits, you see. That’s not human nature. It’s only possible when you get Self Realization.
So this karma yoga is also not so clearcut for people. They come to me [???], saying, We do all the work, without any tru ùth about it. Are you sure? You are still at the human level You cannot do it.
And that is what he tried to say in his two styles of theatre. But, at the very very beginning, he said, You have to become [???]. [???] means a realized soul. You have to become. What is the sign of a [???]? He has given all that in the beginning because I said today that he was not a businessman. A businessman won’t tell the thing is so high, what he’ll tell about the low price and then another price, another price, but first thing only first thing he told, You become [???]. And then he said, You do karmas. You see, his style was to play around so that people immediately come to the point that you have to get your Self Realization.
QUESTION: …Why did you choo se Sahaja Yoga instead of karma yoga and bhakti yoga?
Shri Mataji: You see he didn’t use that. He just wanted to wanted to put it on to Sahaja Yog to become Sitapragyna. But how to convince? Human beings, you know, have a mind which takes them here, there, there, everywhere.
So, to steady down, he is helping a lot because people who are now frustrated, completely finished, that We can’t do all this, so they come to Sahaja Yog. He’s has done a job for me, I must say.
QUESTION: What does after Self Realization [???]? Is that the supreme?
Shri Mataji: After Self Realization. This, I always say, that they can’t become social. You become collectively conscious first of all collectively conscious because you know there is no one other. You are everything. You are the ocean. Not only that, you know, but it is in your awareness to get this collective consciousness. For example, you can feel the centres, your own centres on your fingertips and also you can feel the centres of others on your fingertips. Now, if you can cure your centres, you can cure others. The concern which was towards yourself spreads to all the people. That’s how the whole thing become so global. It’s a global, I should say, a global religion.
QUESTION: Are you actually able to cure other human beings once you’re at that stage?
Shri Mataji: Of course. They get cured, they can cure others and we have also a hospital in Bombay now, another we are going to have in [???], where we don’t charge where we don’t charge them for any treatment because their own power works. But for thei )r food and their roofs, you can charge because, otherwise, not for their awakening or for their curing. People get cured of many diseases, practically most of them.
QUESTION: How long does it take to become at that state [???] time or practise it takes to be at the Self Realization stage or will it take a month or is it a kind of a period or what can a person…?
Shri Mataji: How much time?
Shri Mataji: Time, no time. We call it [???]. You see, one time somebody ask Ramadaswamini how much time it takes for kundalini to rise. He said, [???]. In Sanskrit it means that moment. But there should be a deserving person who should do that and deserving person who should ask for it. But I find so many people are deserving these days with, the way it’s working out, [???], so many o f them, thousands and thousands.
QUESTION: The present moment I read a book recently called The Power of Now and it seems as if people get deluded into the past and the future and they forget who they are in the present moment. Could you talk about the present moment?
Shri Mataji: Yes, it is in the present. One has to move the present, but you can’t be in the present, temperament you can’t be. One thought comes to you like this, falls down. Another thought comes like this [???]. One comes straight from the past or maybe from the future and we’re jumping on the cusp of it also. In the centre of these thoughts there is this, which is complete silence. When Kundalini rises, she elongates those thoughts and the spaces in between and you become thoughtlessly aware. Jung h ™as thought about it. Jung has thought about thoughtless awareness. Lao Tse had talked. So many people have talked about thoughtless awareness where you don’t think, just watch.
QUESTION: How do you know you have got Self Realization?
Shri Mataji: You will know because you will feel on your fingertips the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost, they call in Sanskrit language [???] and Adi Shankaracharya had said. In Koran they call it Ruh. You can feel it. You can also feel it coming out of your fontanel bone. You can feel it. It is an experience. It’s not just lecturing or stamping someone. It’s an experience that you have.
QUESTION: Thank you very much, first of all, for coming to our city here and choosing our city over other places and I would like to ask you do you have a message for our viewers, the thousands of people who could not listen to your messages today and for the weekend you’re here? So do you ‡have a brief message for that they could, perhaps, see you on the TV?
…Shri Mataji: …The whole thing, you want?
QUESTION: No, no, no, just a message from you.
Shri Mataji: In short.
QUESTION: Yes, very brief…. My show is not very long. It’s just half an hour.
Shri Mataji: My simple message is you first know yourself. You must know your potentials and then you will realize you’re not what you know about yourself. You’re much, much more.
QUESTION: Good. That’s very simple message….
QUESTION: Someone told me a story about a man named Gopi Krishna, who accidentally raised his kundalini and then he wandered around and wrote books about it.
Shri Mataji: He’s horrible. That’s [???]
Shri Mataji: See, a person who talks about Self Realization also must be a man of character. How can you sell, how can you sell spirituality? See and then he’s ruined so many p ‰eople’s mind like this, by telling lies.
Now I’ve been doing this work since 1970, as I told and now I’m seventy-seven years of age. I’ve not seen anybody being harmed. Everybody has seen helped. And in the shastras also like this, Gnyeshwara has written about it, so [???]. Even Adi Shankaracharya has written that kundalini is the solution and he’s the one who’s tried to say things just to divert the attention of people so that they don’t take to Self Realization. I can’t understand. Really, I can’t understand your point.
QUESTION: Because if it’s God how could it be bad?
Shri Mataji: How can you be?
QUESTION: If it’s God and spirit, how could it possibly be bad?
Shri Mataji: You see, you can understand. Any intelligent person can understand this point. How can it be bad? How can it harm you? It’s your own mother. Kundalini is your own individual mother. She’s tape recorded all whate !ver you are and you will be. All the predictions she knows. And she’s your mother.
When you were born, all the trouble of your birth was taken by your mother. Did you have any trouble?
QUESTION: Not that I remember.
Shri Mataji: It’s something like that. It’s very simple. She’s very loving. She’s very kind and she knows everything and she’s anxious t give you your Self Realization.
QUESTION: So these people who have gone and warned people about this, they’re actually caught in their own fear, their own projection about it, rather than the experience, the actual experience.
Shri Mataji: It’s all mental projections [???], but they’re mental. That’s all they’ve done.
QUESTION: Are we all one person?
Shri Mataji: Are we all ?
QUESTION: Are we all one being?
Shri Mataji: All connected. All are connected, but those who are realized souls can feel the connection. But those who are not, do not feel it, but we are all connected. They’re all one person, part and parcel of one spiritual being. We can call it God Almighty.
We have to be just aware of it. We have not come into our awareness. Once it comes you know that [???] and then you are a different personality.
QUESTION: I might have some awareness.
Shri Mataji: Well, you are.
QUESTION: Ya. And then sometimes I feel a lot of sadness and pain because I’ll listen to the news and I’ll hear about people bombing each other in part of the world and I’ll stop my car and cry because I feel it, you know.
Shri Mataji: That’s true. That is very true that anyone who’s aware won’t like all this destruction, bu ’t how to [???] it? We have to transform human beings. There’s no [???]. Nothing can be transformed. Like you have economic reforms or you have certain machineries created or other things you do. It’s not going to work out. It’s very superficial. But, if human beings are transformed, then the real love can be felt.
We have now Sahaja Yoga working this in over seventy-two countries and when they meet all of them can’t come, but when they meet you should see, it’s such love, such enjoyment, such friendship. Of course, they pull each other’s legs and all that, have fun, but it’s so sweet. I’ve never heard anything that is destructive.
QUESTION: Because for many years I worked for outer peace. I organized an event in Vancouver called The Walk for Peace and one year we had a hundred thousand people walk down the very street here to protest atomic weapons….
Shri Mataji: …You see, they are so, ºso much full of their ego that it will never go into their head that they should not bomb anything. No argument can work it out. Only way is to transform them. It’s the only way and once we have transformed people who are our political leaders and who are in charge of affairs, [???] whole thing will change.
QUESTION: It seems a great task to have political leaders pay attention to their hearts, rather than just their minds.
Shri Mataji: The trouble is these political leaders may not be having heart itself, so you can’t [???], but we’ll get people later on who will get it by people who are enlightened and then a time will come, we’ll have only large hearted, spiritual.
QUESTION: Does raising one’s kundalini also raise one’s minds so that they can actually organize or be a better employer
Shri Mataji: Of course.
QUESTION: a better leader.
Shri Mataji: It does. It helps in every circumstances, in every kind of position. It help s in every way because you become so dynamic. You become fearless and also you see things so clearly that you can do very well. Now, we have [???] very well known musicians from here who were ordinary. Suddenly, they have become world famous, very much known all over and they show all that respect and they understand that this has happened because they have got their realization. We have people who, say, have been doing, who have been chartered accountants and they have become poets. They write beautiful poetry.
So all this creativity also is expressed as a new dimension of human expression starts. Already I have seen so many things paintings in art. Apart from that, I’ve seen students who are no more in the class are regarded as backward and all that., they stand first. Then our students now we have a school in Dharamsala. Now a boy from Canada only stood first first in the whole of our country that is [???]. And all the boys and girls passed in first class. Then moral standards of these children and of the [???] improves so much that family life improves, you see, and the great satisfaction of [???].
All this is going to come. [???]. It’s all prophesied. Time has to work it out.
QUESTION: So I shouldn’t worry about it?
Shri Mataji: No, you shouldn’t. By worrying it will happen.Other thing will happen. You have to become. [???].
QUESTION: Where does Sahaja Yoga come from? Which religion?
Shri Mataji: From all the religions.
QUESTION: All the religions?
Shri Mataji: All the religions have roots. They’re the same. And they have the sam e tree. Only leaves have spread out, but they are no different, in no way.
QUESTION: They’re all in the scriptures of every religion about the yoga or [???] aspect of it?
Shri Mataji: All what?
QUESTION: The kundalini the Sahaj way itself it’s all written in the scripts
Shri Mataji: All of them, every one of them. Every one of them, even Koran. People have not read Koran. That’s why they are fighting. When I went to Turkey and I told them about Koran, they were so amazed. Their fundamentalists, they came and told me, Mother, thank God you have told us the truth about Koran. We were fighting for nothing. I said, Of course, did you think Muhammed-sahib wanted you to fight like this. And really, we have now two thousand Sahaja Yogis in Turkey, [???]. Two thousand. It’s growi ƒng very fast. I’m very happy. Specially in Russia. Russian people were so oppressed by this Communism or whatever you may call, but now we have so many Russians [???]. Also here you have also Russians who have come to Sahaja Yoga because, you see, because of this oppression [???] great depth [???].
But the problem in countries like America and all that is it’s so much money-oriented that all the horrible gurus came to America made a big [???] there and they don’t understand. They don’t understand that you cannot pay for your gurus. They’ve [???] money. You have to tell. I mean, the media should help me, that they should tell that first, before going to any guru, just find out what does he do, how much he charges first of all. You can’t charge. Of course, these boys are here. They have collected money. They have got these things. That’s different. You can pay them, but not for your Sel ÷f Realization. This is a living process. It’s a last breakthrough of your evolution. How can you charge for it?
QUESTION: …You don’t charge for anything, so how is it supported?
Shri Mataji: No, no. See what I said. I don’t charge for Self Realization, but some for a hall. These people have collected the money and they [???], but formerly I used to do from my own money in the beginning. It’s all right. It doesn’t matter what the money works out.
QUESTION: …From what I’ve read, [???] how you were going to pass on the message….
Shri Mataji: I saw it, but I worked it out myself, how to do it and I did it, so I saw it. If you do yourself something because I was trying to find out what’s the human problem, why can’t they all get it. And then I worked it out in a very subtle way and it worked.
QUESTION: What is the purpose of meditation as a particular aspect of what you do, meditation?
Shri Mataji: Now, meditation otherwise, unless and until you are connected, it’s no use doing meditatio n. Now we do meditation because our centres are yet not so clear. They have to be kept clean. So it’s like a cleansing process for our centres and that’s what we do. It’s very silent and about ten minutes meditation is sufficient.
For example, we have two types of people who have two types of problems. One we call as right-sided who are very futuristic, think too much and all that. Another, left-sided who are very depressed and unhappy. So there are two types of simple meditation and hen they do it they come into balance. It has a positive effect and has a positive line of action. We don’t sit for hours together. Ten minutes, that’s sufficient every day.
QUESTION: What does your name how would you translate your name into English Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi.
Shri Mataji: Now Shri is always said to any person who i respected in India and Mataji means mother. We call, Mataji is the first name of the, should say, the Goddess, means the mother. So they call it Mataji to me. Nirmala, it means you can say immaculata. Immaculata. You can say without any without any Êabsolutely clean.
Shri Mataji: Absolute pure. Nirmala. Absolute pure. And Devi is you say to all ladies as Devi, means the Goddess, but actually it is used for any lady. [???]. They consider all women are like Goddesses and they should be treated like that.
QUESTION: And all men should be like Gods and treated like Gods.
Shri Mataji: Yes, they should be.
QUESTION: [???] Sometimes we forget though.
SHRI MAT AJI: You see, they do become. They can become very godly, if not gods. They can become gods and if they become godly things will change much more, but I think men have improved a lot in Western countries somehow, but the women still are difficult. I don’t know….
QUESTION: Strong minded.
Shri Mataji: I find that, you see, because maybe the women in India are they treat themself as the prisoner of the society. They are the prisoner of the society that’s how they are responsible for maintaining family life and al so, later on in a [???], they go for they have to look after the society as such. And the man is not the prisoner of society. So the problem is, once you realize how responsible you have to be, it’s a different type of a life, but if they have no responsibility, then you start competing with men, do all kinds of things. It’s not necessary. We should not compete with them. We are very happy people. See, I have only one boss that’s my husband and no other problem, but if I start work, there will be so many bosses [???], you see.
So keep peace in the house, have all the prosperity in the housewife, proper spending and proper arrangements and all that, it’s also a very big job and mostly that should be done by women, but even if they’re working, they should no be [???], they should be properly [???] and they should look after the household. [???] that only men. Here men may be able to do, but not in India. If you ask men to do any work in the house, you are finished. They can’t do anything. So here, it is better that men are doing some work, but still, there road is different. One must understand. Men are interested in politics, economics and all those things, but women should not fall into these traps. What they should do is look after their society. That’s a very, very important role they have to play.
QUESTION: So they’re, in essence, more skillful or, in some qualities, to understand relationships better, how people relate.
Shri Mataji: After Sahaj Yog, it’s wonderful. Now we have about hundred marriages, [???],
hundred, two hundred and twenty or so, every year or twice a year. Twice a year once in Italy, once in India and, out of that, one person fails, not always, but sometimes. That is maybe because it’s mostly international, it’s mostly from another family and all that, some sort of a thing missing, but normally they do not fail. So you can imagine what is the success. And they get children who are born realized, with beautiful children, saintly [???]. So they also make the life very much better.
QUESTION: What are your views on society?….
Shri Mataji: You see, the society is going towards the destruction because of funny ideas and freedom. Freedom doesn’t mean that you go mad even and this is what is the problem of the society today, that there is everywhere free “dom. They do whatever you like. We can fill ourselves. We can take drugs. We can live the way we like. Nobody feel responsible, but after Sahaja Yoga, a society of an enlightened people comes and they, a people who are of enlightened society, they believe in a different path. They look after their children. They look after their society. And also they are very peaceful, very kind, loving, not worried.
QUESTION: I read the brochure that was given out last night and it seems someone in your organization loves poetry because there were some beautiful poems in there and I was wondering if you have any particular poets or that you really appreciate….
Shri Mataji: But I would say William Blake. He has written in a very [interruption in recording]. Rabindranath Tagore has also written, [speaks in Hindi], people from all over the country will come to meet the Mother so beautifully written. So many. Þ We have one book [???]. In that you will find all these great poet who have talked about those days.
QUESTION:…I love one of his poems. He who binds to himself the joy [interruption in recording] [???]
Shri Mataji: It depends on the wish of the people. My wish, that it should happen tomorrow. Why should we waste our life on nonsensical. Come to our senses. This is what I want, but I’m now travelling, lecturing, talking, but what I feel that at the helm of affairs one should see the point. Unless and until they see the point
QUESTION: I’m turning fifty and I’m very interested with what I am going to do with the second half of my life. I want to spend a little more time in an aware state, rather than in a busy business [???]….
Shri Mataji: You can do a lot. Media can do a lot. I’m quite worried about media, especially in India, My husband told me, unless and until, [???] the money, they won’t do anything. [???] They write about all nonsensical things and they wa ônt you to quarrel and fight so there is some sensation. But the sensation is soon over. That’s why I’m getting concerned. [???] media from now on, talk about something sensible because there is a very big responsibility. I don’t think the media realizes how responsible they have to [be]. So, if the whole world is destroyed because of media [???]. They have to be very, very careful because they are carrying the messages all around and also whatever [???]. Correct? They are not absolute.
Shri Mataji: It cannot, but, what happens, this kundalini is your mother, as I said, so if you have some problem, she goes to that problem and tries to cure, improve it and then, again, she stops. [???] But you must know about yourself, what your problem is and how you can help yourself [???]. Because it is your own. It is your right. It is your birthright and God has given. So all those people who are sitting out, taking drugs [???], if someone could tell them that, No, no, no, you just have to find out for yourself, that’s all.
QUESTION: If it’s a birthright how come you don’t realize it?…
Shri Mataji: You do in a way, but you’re lost. You can realize it. All the seeking that is going on [???]. They don’t know what to seek.
QUESTION: …You were talking about the media. I have a great concern about the media, too. The reason I started my magazine is because I wanted
Shri Mataji: I’m sorry, but this is my experience, what I’m telling you about. It’s just that they give under-importance to things
QUESTION: I agree.
Shri Mataji: and that’s how you see, they are the ones who guide, guide the whole world.
QUESTION: But it’s kind of like leading the world around like a bull with a ring in its nose. You know, it’s not maybe people who are using the med ia are responsible, too, in the same way. Instead of trying to change the politicians, we try to change ourselves. The people who use the media, if they could understand it better and then they could decide not to use it and they could learn how to communicate without being dependent on the media and with the internet and
Shri Mataji: But I think media people should feel they are free. They’re free. That’s very important to understand, that they have all the freedom and, if they are guided by some other people, then what’s the use? They’re absolutely free. They should have their own expression. They should understand, have their own understanding. This is their responsibility. We never had such media before. And now it has come. I think it has come for Sahaj Y og, all this media. But it’s not working for Sahaj Yog. It’s very sad. Even communication like television. Everything is for Sahaj Yog, to communicate that, but it’s not done. It’s not done. They pay importance to things which are of no value.
QUESTION: Someone once said we are entertaining ourselves to death.
Shri Mataji: But the entertainment is so temporary. It has no depth to it.
So things can be better, much better. There’s a starting from Canada.
QUESTION: Why have you chosen on your tour, you have chosen North America [???]? Why North America?
Shri Mataji: I have been to America [???]. I came to America long, long time back. I think Ô72 and I saw how the people were foolish because they’re falling on sixteen year old boy and he was just befooling them. I said, How ‹can I talk to these people? They are just children. They won’t understand. [???] Sorry to say, but in these nine years and lot of such people went there, exploited them, looted them, did all kinds of things, but they are consumer society and they believe that on should take money. Because I said, I don’t money. They said, You will never work out. They even came to teach me what is the economics of this. I said, I tried.
You see, this is the problem is, that once this is on their [???], the whole American mind works on the line of making money. And what is it? You’re preying on the weaknesses of people. And money’s not a good thing. It’s not a joyous [???], not at all. The family’s breaking. Imagine the violence of children. Think of it. How can they do such violence? All kinds of horrible things of our animal heritage are expressed. So, ultimately, one has to think what should we do? One Ù has to think, What should we do to change the temperament of people to understand. Because this is just beginning of destruction and such countries will be destroyed where not even children are all right, the families are ruined. You may have money, but what’s the use? They talk of spiritual life. They talk of spirituality. Now they wanted to have ten commandments. [???]
I mean, what I am trying to say, unless and until you understand spirituality and the essence of it, no use teaching because that will create another problem. The Jews are saying, According to us, ten commandments are this and Christians are saying, According to us, ten commandments. You see, it’s human being who are doing all the [???]. And human beings, their speciality’s this.
Now say, in a forest, if you go, it’s very clean. You never get any [???] or smell. But, if there is smell, know there must be some man who must have entered the forest. So human beings are like that. They’re quite capab ìle of ruining everything to their advantage. And they have done horrible things.
QUESTION: I have a question. People are, in every religion, praying, doing mantras or some sort of prayers. What is the difference if I were to pray, say doing mantras every day and praying to God every day and Sahaja Yoga.
Shri Mataji: You are not connected. In Sahaja Yoga, whatever you pray or whatever you want, you are expressing to God. You are not connected. Supposing I am not connected to you, then how will I understand. That’s how. You have to be connected is the main point and that should happen and, with that, so many things come, so many changes, so many benefits unlimited. They call it miracles. I say there are no miracles. It’s all done by this power, so nothing is a miracle.
QUESTION: So is it related to what I’m currently [???], in fact, prayer-related at some point. And if I do Sahaja Yoga I can actually link both together?
Shri Mataji: Not necessary.
QUESTION: Or will it help or
Shri Mataji: Meditation can also separately be done, but you must meet collectively because collectively you grow better. If you are collective, you grow much better in your spiritual [???]. Every day you talk, what you have achieved, what you have seen, this thing and you grow much better. You have to be collective. If you are not collective, then you don’t [???].
QUESTION: Then how do you reach supreme being, God. In other words is this the route to reach the supreme God? Is this the route?…
Shri Mataji: Yes, this is, of course. This is Nirvana.
QUESTION: Is there then a connection between religion and spirituality?
Shri Mataji: Religion, as it is, this is not distorted by human beings. Of course, it’s based on spirituality, but it is all distorted , you see, human beings have taken for a ride. Not only that, it’s very money-oriented and power-oriented. [???]. So they’re no religions. I mean, I can’t understand. How can a religion be money-oriented and power-oriented and all the religions, so-called religions are today fighting with each other, [???] believe in one God. How can that be?
QUESTION: There are, fortunately, a few spiritual teachers, like yourself, have you met any other spiritual teachers you like and you get along with, that you find have common goals, but maybe different forms? Like I think about people like Dalai Lama and think about
Shri Mataji: Now Dalai Lama is very much exposed. They’ve exposed Dalai Lama, very much exposed. One couple, German couple, have written a letter, but then now the y have written a book that this Dalai Lama has taken all their money. They’re left high and dry. And then they went to Spain and they tried these tantric stuff on them. Very clever. It’s a very good thing, but it’s in German language. It’s to be translated. What he does, he’s [???].
QUESTION: But is there any other spiritual teacher you like?
Shri Mataji: In the present?
Shri Mataji: There are so many. All my children are teachers, I should say. [???] But there are some great saints still in India. I have seen them. They said, Mother, if you want, we can do as you like. we have nothing to do with [???] because they have tortured us. So they are living in the Himalayas or some sort of a [???], but they don’t want to come in the arena. They said. It’s you, who as a ¾ mother, can do it. We have nothing to do. Because they were tortured and troubled [???].
QUESTION: Who is your guru? [???] …I believe that everyone has a guru, when they do start in a particular step. Did you have a guru who you admired or did you just
Shri Mataji: I was born like that.
Shri Mataji: And you will also become your own guru when you will be a realized soul [???]. And you don’t need any guru.
QUESTION: The word Sahaja, maybe I missed it, but is there a definition, like the word itself, Saha-ja, is that from Hindi? What language is that from and how would it be translated into English, Sahaja, the word itself.
Shri Mataji: Sahaja.
Shri Mataji: We call it spontaneous yoga, spontaneity. Spontaneous. Spontaneity comes from the living processes. It’s a living process of your evolution and this is the last breakthrough.
QUESTION: Do you consider yourself a guru?
Shri Mataji: Yo ùu see, I don’t consider, but then [???].
QUESTION: You are a leader. One thing I realized was also [???] nobody is to touch your feet and that’s a sign
Shri Mataji: No, no, you know before, you know, these Indians are mad. They go on touching your feet and not caring for the spiritual path. What I want is they should grow in spirituality. But once they have touched the feet, then it’s done, according to Indians. That’s why I said, Don’t touch my feet. And also people who are false, I should say, like them to touch their feet, to see that they bow to them. I don’t want. I want that you grow in your spirituality. It’s something rare [???].
QUESTION: For Indian, it is something very rare.
Shri Mataji: They were upset when I said you can’t touch my feet because all the time they’re announcing, Don’t touch the feet, don’t touch the feet, so they were a might upset.
QUESTION: I don’t know. I don’t think you were upset. It’s I guess it’s such a tradition that people are used to it.
SHRI MAT ôAJI: That’s very much in India so much so that it’s called darshan. See, so once Jawaharlal Nehru was to come, [???] studied, and we were [???] volunteers, see. So we went there to work it out. And so many people had come on their bullock carts just listen to Jawaharlal Nehru, but his plane was late. For three hours we were all sitting nicely. And once he came, they said, We’re going home. I said, Huh? All the time you sit here. He said, No, now we have the darshan. Now we are going home.
QUESTION: It’s like taking an aspirin.
Shri Mataji: What then to take? It’s a style in India that traditionally, you see, there’s a darshan of person, finished. That should have an effect. It should. So many people it can have. Best is you accept that your kundalini [???].
QUESTION: It’s like they take this and then they go away smiling and then they forget they’re realized, so next day they do unrealized things and they’re unskillful.
Shri Mataji: [???] very interesting sometimes. I really can’t u nderstand that in India we have many customs also like one great saint was Gnyeshwara and he was born in a place called [???] and I saw many ladies and saw many ladies going with a complete pot, earthen pot, filled with earth and with the [???], keeping on the head, walking down [???]. All kinds of funny ideas, you see.
Then there’s another one which goes to Pandapur, to visit the temple there. For one month they walk and they wear just gunny bags and they’re singing, dancing and going on. I mean, nobody has said you that you should do like this, but they go there. I mean, all kinds of funny things.
Muslims are even worse sometimes than Hindus in their whole thing like going to Haj. I asked them, If you don’t believe in the worship of a stone, why do you go to that stone? What is the point? Actually, that stone is described in our shastras, in our scriptures as Makeshwar Shiva. It’s a Shiva. So that’s why they that’s why Muhammed-sahib didn’t talk of all these things very openly, but he did say [???] ÷realized souls, there had been. But the Muslims, you know, they’re very close to my [???] and anybody can guide them and they’re, poor thing, the simplest people because anybody can guide them, tell them whatever they like. They don’t read [???] the Koran themselves.
I’ve got one who’s written about Koran. [???]. It’s very interesting and it’s written by a French lady, but I told her to write. It’s very good. I mean, it explains what Muhammed-sahib wanted. He has also said about these things that at the time of resurrection you r hands will speak. So is it clear?
But everybody is following something else. [???]
But that’s how you should not turn your thing to all these [???]. No, you should know, should see what is the thing. After all, does it help people or [???]. All the disciples of these great saints, like Gnyeshwara, who was such a great saint. He wrote such a big book about realization. He also wrote about kundalini. [???] What he told, nobody has bothered to read. It’s a kind of a regular exercise, every year. So that madness may not be, but there’s another type of madness to the list.
QUESTION: …Every religion has certain restrictions, such as fasting, eating meat or not eating meat, you can be vegetarian. Does Sahaja Yoga have any sort of restriction?
Shri Mataji: No. See, beef we don’t eat because, you see, beef medically is [???] food. Any meat of the bigger animals is no good because it spoils [???] your gums. Gums are spoiled. You see, we Indians have that thing in Gita, but here I see people [???] because if you take beef, then these muscles are [???], are attacked, but other meat or anything is what we say whatever is needed for your body you should have. There’s nothing like this Don’t eat that. Eat that, all that kind of thing. Because it doesn’t change the personality. By taking vegetarian food, I have not seen anybody becoming a very quiet personality. No. So it is just a sort of an outward feeling that you become a vegetarian or non-vegetarian. Food is not so important, It’s not so important. To think about food and even the people who are vegetarians think too much about food and also the people who are non-vegetarians also think about it.
Now think of one, like if you go to places, there is no vegetable [???]. Are they all singing?
I don’t Šknow from where this fad has come.
QUESTION: Well, one place is that to be vegetarian is to do less harm, the concept of doing less harm. You know, to go and kill a chicken is, from my perspective, is causes more grief than eating carrots or grains.
Shri Mataji: No, you see, animals, when we eat them, they evolve into greater animals. It’s not correct. I don’t say that you become a non-vegetarian like that, but you don’t harm them. They don’t understand harm. They don’t understand harm, but if you eat meat, if you want to eat meat, you are giving them evolutionary jump. You see, a small fish is eaten by a big fish, all right. So is it a fish first? In the same way, for human beings who need proteins, should take to non-vegetarian. In India specially, I think so many people [???]. They’re very money-oriented, those who are vegetarians. It’s true. [???] And then you have [???], which are ƒeven worse. So they don’t eat meat. They don’t eat chicken, but they eat human beings all right. because, you see, a certain strength that you get from this vegetarianism is of no value absolute. No. So it’s just a thing to be giving yourself some [???] also.
I don’t say that you should take non-vegetarian, but vegetarians are normally are weak towards money. Money’s very important for them. Gujaratis, as you know, are. Not yet. And, do you know, you are one of the, I think, third [???]. We have only two Gujaratis in Sahaj Yog. I went to Gujarat, did all kinds of work with them. I helped Mahatma Gandhi there now. They’re very big businessmen, no doubt, but I don’t understand non-vegetarian. I met many more non-vegetarians than vegetarians in Sahaja Yoga. They have so many gurus. Gujaratis have so many gurus who just make money. Funny types, you know.
Once, by mistake, I went to a [??? ], by mistake. I went by taxi, so the taxi couldn’t drop me there. I said, Let’s see what they’re doing. These gentlemen had arranged a marriage of Shri Rama and Shri Sita and two children were chosen for that. They were dressed up. And they said, Now we have to pay for the dowry of Sitaji. So all the ladies were taking out their bangles and ornaments. I’ve seen with my own eyes. Now what sort of a wisdom is that? And then they start condemning other people who are non-vegetarians.
So, if you are a vegetarian, you should not hit anyone. [???]. The jealousies and all that, [???]. But in Sahaja Yoga it’s not compulsory. If you want, you can eat vegetarian [???], but we don’t object to such people, but we have to have Muslims. We have to have Christians. We have to have all of them in Sahaja Yoga and I found they are quite all right. They are better people. Russians can’t live without meat. They have to. [???] And they are the best Sahaja Yogis.
And also [???] incarnations [???] Shri Rama, he used to eat m eat because, as you have seen that even [???] deer because he was a [???] and he used to eat meat.
QUESTION: So where did the concept of becoming a vegetarian came to religions?
Shri Mataji: It’s some of the mix, you see, that has created by people that you should become famous growing vegetables. Otherwise, I can’t explain. Even among Gujaratis, only the [???], but otherwise [???].
Now, I’m surprised that we have so many [???] in Sahaja Yoga, in the north, somehow, but not in [???]. So many Gujaratis [???]
[ ’interruption in recording]
Shri Mataji: He [Gandhi] said, All right, when you start you Sahaja Yoga, you can teach them all these things. Right now the emergency is there. We have to fight for our freedom and all that. We have to be like this. He had seven steps he put for going to the bath because when it rained sometimes [???]. Somebody thought it’s a little far away from each other, put one more. He just went off. Temper. Who dare do this? I need seven of them. He used to count even that. Very meticulous. But you might find otherwise. Very sweet. If you knew how to handle him, he was very very sweet, an Abraham Lincoln-like person [???]. How can you compare him with anybody else?
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi