Milan (Italy)

1999-09-18 Shri Mataji, Interview in Milan, Italy, 118'
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Interview in Milan 18th September 1999

SHRI MATAJI: Have you talked to them about Sahaj Yoga?

GUIDO: She’s a yogini journalist, she’ been introducing…..

S.M.: Alright

G.: Also she has a miraculous healing in…..she was in Vashi

S.M.: Good, very good…….you’ll be asked questions of….should we do this because…….

G: also two doctors in the hall, they are just coming up if you……..

S.M.: alright

JOURNALIST (INTRODUCING): She’s the director of a very important review of natural health, she is the director

G.: she is the director of a magazine which is treating health and nature.

J.: Riza Psicosomatica, well known

G.: It’s a very well known magazine, there were also articles before about Sahaja Yoga

J.: She is of Marie Claire, a magazine of Mondadori, the best in feminine magazine

S.M.: ah…….this gentleman there? There are all Sahaj yogis?

g.: yes, there are all Sahaj yogis

J.: he is not a Sahaja yogi, public relation with journalists and magazines, public relation man with many journalists

G.: public Relation man

S.M.: This lady?

J.: the wife

S.M.: who’s behind?

A.: Sahaja yogis, all Sahaja yogis

S.M.:alright, so have you talked to them about Sahaja Yoga?

G.: She spoke

J.: yes, they know the name of Sahaja Yoga, they know… you want to ask to Shri Mataji…..

S.M.: ask it in Italian and he’ll translate for me

G.: She’s asking whether they can record……they’re asking whether they can record

S.M.: All this

G.: she’s asking whether, even by mistake, Sahaja Yoga can be used in a bad way, in the sense, in the negative way?

S.M.: Can not, it can not, because the principle is that you have to raise this residual power of Kundalini, that is the principle. Now Sahaja means “spontaneous” and Yoga means “the union with the Divine”, so when you are connected to the Divine you can’t do wrong. But we have people who have failed in Sahaja Yoga, because basically they were, I should say not good persons, low level, very low level……some, some…….and one was a criminal…..we found about him, you see…….we could give them realization, of course straight but he could not stay. They wanted to cheat people, all kind of nonsensical things. Then they go against Sahaja Yoga, very few.

G.: She’s saying in a wrong person can be a sort of a power which can go against

J: like magic

S.M.: they can’t get power you see. Supposing this electricity has some fault, the electricity cannot pass. They may firstly say:”They are Sahaja Yogis”, but they are not.

G.: Would like to explain more about Sahaja Yoga, what are the aims……

S.M.: this is for our evolution, the last step of our evolution, last…….now we have become human beings, alright, but still we have many things of the animal in heritance and we have not got connected to this All Pervading Power which is subtle, these two problems. The third problem with the human beings is this that sometimes they profess untruth. So to find the truth, the reality, what you have to become is union with the Divine Ghost and then you become the Spirit. You are no more the body, the emotions, the intellect, but you are the Spirit, pure Spirit. 

As a result, whatever are clinging to us because of inheritance maybe or whatever you are quite a little more thinking, drops out. So this is the last, we should say, last breakthrough of our evolution, last breakthrough.

For this there is a power within us, in the triangular bone, already placed, is there in this state. This one has to be ……we should say….has to be awakened.

As one candle which is enlightened can only enlighten another light. In the same way once you are enlightened you can also enlighten another one. So is it….this is for the real resurrection of human beings because complete transformation takes place.

Firstly you become very creative, secondly you become a satisfied person, thirdly you may develop a very good music maybe….or anything with the throat once goes out in a way that you can sing very well, you can talk very well, also the voice improves. then your thinking process, which is very strong, whatever you see, you react. You see according to the past or the future conditionings you react. What she says……..

G.: She’s saying this Kundalini awakening can happen only through this…….through some ignit….. or through an expansion of the awareness?

S.M.: an expansion of awareness?… no no…it is as I told you one enlightened light can enlighten another light, in the same way if you are enlightened you can raise our kundalini. That’s why I’m coming to you now, that your awareness become collective consciousness, become collective, you can feel another person on your fingertips, you can feel it on your fingertips, the centres, centres are there within, you can feel on your fingertips but when you come to this point, then you become thoughtlessly aware.

Now as I told you with reactions, one thought like this from the past maybe from the future, another thought like this and falls. And in between these thoughts there is a little space which is the present. When you cross this point then you become thoughtlessly aware means you come in the present. Then you become just a witness, you don’t react. 

Like see, this is a beautiful carpet: if I start thinking about it and take from where they got it, how much money they had paid, how much I’ll have to pay. Or else if it is mine I will be worried about why to insure it or not. But I watch it, just witness it without thinking and then what happens I become thoughtless. And all the joy that is put into this by the artists is re-joy. That’s how you enjoy, that’s how you enjoy.

This is the last point I would start the actualization of the baptism: when it opens out you get connected to this all pervading power of Divine Love. Then you become like a drop in the ocean, and you become very peaceful, you become absolutely peaceful. All the violence, all the jealousies and all the vengeance, everything drops out. 

That’s only the part of it but also these centres that are within you are responsible for physical, mental and emotional being. So many people who are seekers can get cured. So many people who are mentally handicapped can get cured, like lunatics, schizophrenics

G.: she’s saying what about the karmic illness?

S.M.: Karma… when you become one with that Divine power all your karmas get dissolved, completely finished, there’s no more left karmas. Because you are not that person what you were with karma. With the karmas I want to explain that you get a personality that Is more either bent towards spirituality or towards violence or anything, do clear karmas, temperament but not any sufferings because you know Christ suffered so much, do you think he would have done by karmas?

So the theory that because you have done bad karmas so you suffer it’s not correct. This theory was established by Shri Krishna especially karma theory but Krishna was a very clever man and he knew that all human beings have something up in their heads. So in his Gita  very trickily he has put: like in the Karma, Karma Yoga he said that whatever work you do you put at the lotus feet of God, the pahlu, means the fruit of it. That’s an impossible situation: because when you do something you know you have done it, so you cannot put the fruit onto some. So he wanted human beings to try this but it doesn’t work. Second thing he’s told about our bhakti, devotion. That you give me fruits, you give me flowers, you give me water, I’ll take but here used very symbolic word: you should do this with Ananya bhakti, when there is no the other means you become one with Me. So whatever worship you do also, it should be after you are connected with the Divine. So this karma theory should be understood properly. Otherwise people go into guilt for nothing at all: with that you catch all this centre here or this centre here and you might get spondylitis or you might get even angina. We have already a hospital in India where many people go from all over the world and for outdoor patients we don’t charge anything and for indoor patient we charge 3 compare…..300 rupees are…. 3 dollars, 3 pounds….about 3 dollars for indoor. But if they take a private room and all that, there is more. Because as it is we don’t give any medicines or anything, just by giving you balance it works out. When you are in imbalance then you get diseases either physical or mental.

G.: She wants to have your definition about health and illness first of all and then the role of Nature in curing certain diseases?

S.M.: so what does she want to know…..

G.: your idea about health and illness

S.M.: I told you when you go into imbalances on the mental side or on the physical side then you get illness. If it could be corrected, then you are away.

G.: and what is the role of Nature……

S.M.: Nature always try to help you but sometimes we go against the Nature, is very sympathetic, is very calm

G.: she says that human beings have forgotten the Nature, actually they go against the Nature. But in Sahaja Yoga we come to know again all the five elements and the Nature itself

S.M.: Nature understands us once you are one with the Divine because Divine is looking after the Nature. So whatever are your requirements, Nature gives. We don’t respect the Nature, that’s our problem. Say in India when we get up first we say salute to the Mother Earth because we are going to touch her with our feet to begin with.

G.: She says…..

S.M.: Who’s coming……who is there?

G.: maybe some doctors have come……if somebody doesn’t have the luck to meet Sahaja Yoga what will have? I mean is it possible that the Kundalini can rise by itself?

S.M.: no, I’m sorry. No, I mean somebody who is a realized soul, any realized soul may try to raise the Kundalini but so far I’ve not met anyone who is a non Sahaja yogi could raise the Kundalini. But I have travelled in every country, every country I’ve travelled it was all announced and told to people. But they are not so receptive as the Italians are I should say.

G.: she’s asking who raised Your Kundalini?

S.M.: I was born

G.: She’s asking who are You?

S.M: that you have to discover… see once you know yourself you’ll know Me also….you have to know yourself first…….what she said

G.: she said you don’t want answer, you don’t answer

S.M.: she’s very innocent…….she has not asked me any question

G: she is full of emotion

S.M.: this lady could bring woman’s baptism, the land of woman also

G.: she says it’s very difficult to combine the life of a family, the family life with the spiritual life?

S.M.: not at all, it’s much easier….see now I’m a grandmother, great grandmother, I’ve daughters, they have children, and they have children….now my husband is here sir CP, come along, you tell how sort of family life….. she wants to record

G.: she says in family life it would be much easier if all the members are Sahaja Yogis?

S.M.: in my family I’m the only one…let’s see Peter

Sir C.P.: I stand up to speak?

G.: you seat here Sir if you like

Sir CP.: She was born what She is but it took some time even for Her to know what She is but was inside Her. Once it happened to Her, She knew but for some time she was a family wife. But in 1970 She decided to enter the world and begin this new movement. From the moment we got married I found how to be a different person, you know, not the normal human being. For example I was and I’m still fond of good food but she would eat anything whether was not so good or so good or whether have some salt in it or didn’t have. She wouldn’t question, she was different. In our family we have two daughters to begin with small but we had number of relations whose children would come to our house to live with us and She would give them the same love as She gave to our own children, no difference. Because for Her all the children of the world are the same including our children, no difference. But I tell you the story which changed me ‘cause I’m a bureaucrat, I’m a diplomat, I’m a trained service servant so I want to understand from my…everything. So one day I had an experience that changed me: I got the job, I got elected as secretary- general of the United Nations Maritime Organization in London so I’m going someday to London and we took up a house. And one day if you are living the two of us in the house, one evening when I returned home from office, I found a young man, quite young man sitting in my rainproof on a sofa and reading a newspaper and I didn’t know how he had come because we had no plan, wearing my clothes. And I thought I was seen something wrong, so I went out and I went to Her I’m seeing something wrong with me and she said no no no. Then She told me he was sick, he was a sick boy with a cancer. She had gone to London Piccadilly Circus, there she saw a young man just lying uncareful, so she went up to him out of compassion, as I told you she has a lot of compassion for everyone and ask him:” What’s the matter? Why are you lying here?”. she didn’t know who he was but he said: ”I’m sorry I have nobody to look after me, I’m very ill”. So She said: ”Alright, come with me in my car, I’ll take you home”. So he came to the house in no clothes, he had to be given a bath and he had to change his clothes so he had to get my clothes, no other clothes with him. I was very happy, I welcomed that because it was a very compassionate act of Hers. And then I saw the influence of Her Divine Love she talks about, her love creating a new person out of that work. He stayed with us for about two or three months but he blossomed into a beautiful, healthy young man. He was suffering from jaundice probably and other diseases (S.M.: Cancer) probably but he got cured. He became a healthy young man and he went back to his parents in Australia. Now can you imagine the happiness of his father and mother that lost his son, he goes back transformed by Her, that changed me also. Saying the nice things many drug people, people who take drugs changing overnight, they give up drugs overnight not because they have to do something, they don’t have anymore the need for drug. Suddenly they are changed by raising the Kundalini inside, the power, they don’t want drugs, they don’t want alcohol, they don’t want immoralism.

S.M.: they don’t smoke

Sir C.P.: they don’t smoke. Why? Because she doesn’t say “Don’t smoke!”, she doesn’t say “Don’t smoke!”. They themselves don’t need drugs, don’t need smoke, don’t need alcohol, that is the kind of transformation which takes place. 

The most important need as I see of the world to come, on the Shri Mataji’s world (?), is good human beings, people who will all want to live together regardless of religion, regardless of race, regardless of country, one man one earth one environment. We have to create a new human being and She is creating those new human beings like Mr. Guido.

G.: how much can the faith help us in this process and how much the doubt can be an obstacle for our growth

S.M.: Faith in what?

G.: the faith in Sahaja Yoga… much it can be a more help and how much the skepticism can be an obstacle for our growth?

S.M.: You see, once you get the experience, what I’m saying, once you get the experience, the actualization, then if you are honest you can be now, if you are dishonest it’s alright. In that experience you can feel on your fingertips this All Pervading Power of Love. And then there are these five six and seven centers on the left side and five six and seven centres on the right side. Now on your fingertips you can feel your own centres and then you know what’s wrong with you. That means the Self knowledge. Another thing is if you want to know what is right and what is wrong. Supposing some man is there and says: ”I’m very spiritual” and doubt, you put both your hands towards that person and you will feel on your fingers heat, very tingling sometimes I get blister also for a while or sometimes nothing and sometimes also vibrations. Also if you want to decide whether this is right or wrong you put your hands like this and if it is right you’ll get vibrations ,if it is wrong nothing. So you see it is giving you absolute, absolute truth, absolute knowledge.

G.: when we start thinking about then we create an obstruction?

S.M.: alright, maybe but you see you have to go beyond thought as Einstein said that you have to go to torsion area, beyond thought.

G.: how much the fear can damage us?

S.M.: Fear can damaged a lot but it can be cured completely… comes by the centre heart, so once it is settled in, once it is properly nourished then you don’t have any fear

G.: How do you nourish the centre?

S.M: you see, there are so many ways in Sahaja Yoga by which you can nourish your centre, you see and can get corrected by a Sahaja Yogi, he can do it or you come before the photograph also can work it out because the photograph has got vibrations.

G.: she’s asking whether you are considering yourself a Sahaja Yogi? (to Mr. C.P.)

Sir CP.: I’m an apprentice Sahaja Yogi not as good as he is. I’m trying to be. I want to say something: you have to have faith in yourself (S.M.: and also time). If you believe there is an All Pervading Power, if there is an All Pervading Power and you believe in yourself then She puts you in touch with that. And once you are in touch with that Power you are part of the Power. And then one changes

S.M.: and we get the help of course. I think their responsibility is very great, they should realize it

Sir C.P.: for the guru of the all world

G.: she says it’s very difficult to communicate through words

S.M.: you should write it down you should get the experience, write it down clearly that we have the experience. You should have courage to say that, you’ll clear away nobler(?).

G.: do you think this is the only way to meet you up or there are other way?

S.M: As far as I know this is the only way, this is all created by God Himself. I’ll tell you a simple thing: this is connected with the mains, if it is not, it won’t give the light.

G.: she says Love is not enough?

S.M.: Love? No your love has to be Divine Love….that doesn’t expect anything, it just flows and it works

G.: and she says this is enough without raising the Kundalini?

S.M.: no you can’t because your love will be limited, you might be loving your husband maybe your children maybe…… limited but here you become like an ocean

G.: she is trying to understand because she saw in Bhagavad Gita that sometimes this selfless love is enough to give this connection to God?

S.M.: that same thing Krishna’s tricks, it is Krishna’s tricks you see because he knew that human beings are not easy to understand, so he has said all these things but is a trick. In the beginning only he has said about Stitha Pragnya, this is a realized soul or a Sahaja Yogi, he described and after that he doesn’t say how. So he calls it as Gyana yoga, the yoga of knowledge…….so he says that you should get absolute knowledge and when you get the absolute knowledge what happens to you he describes. But he doesn’t say about kundalini. It was 6000 years back, so you see if human being were not at that era aware, he didn’t say anything. Also In 1902 (XII century) Gyana Devaki was the first man ,who wrote about it, taking the permission of his guru, he wrote a commentary on Gita and in the sixth chapter he described that with the Kundalini awakening you can become Stitha Pragnya or a realized soul. In those days the system was that one guru used to give to one disciple. This was the Param-param, means tradition, one person. Then Gyana Deva took permission just to write it. But in the XVI century there were many of them: Guru Nanaka was there, Kabir , all these, and also in Maharastra so saints came in and they talked about Kundalini.

Sir C.P.: even about bhakti, he said complete bhakti, complete union which means the same thing She is saying how to bring at about, complete union is bhakti , total merging that is possible……

S.M.: because supposing you do bhakti you are not connected, how God is going to be save you?

Sir C.P.: this is the process: kundalini helps you to become one with God, this is a process.

S.M.: and without that connection if you do bhakti is fruitless….this is the reason why all religions have failed. ‘cause they became very power oriented, money oriented but never spiritually oriented. That’s why they are fighting among themselves widely

G.: there is a reason why God didn’t reveal before all this ?

S.M.: you have to mature and these are special times of Last Judgement.

G.: if you can tell something about this period where we are living

S.M.: it’s very precious

G.: she says it’s a period of changing

S.M.: of course, this the period of truth also of great turmoil and of transformation, we should say this the blossom time, means many flowers are going to become fruits.

G.: she says you are travelling so much: there is a particular receptivity now for Sahaja Yoga and in which countries?

S.M: in which country? I can’t say I would say in Europe, Italy and Austria because Italians have open heart. Same with Austrians because they are farmers and they are down to earth. Especially Russians, multi, multi there. The reason is they were so much oppressed by communism that they went inside very deep, they are very deep, very very deep. And they have taken to Sahaja Yoga just like a fish takes to water. Thousands and thousands, very sensitive, very sensitive, absolutely I mean remarkable. Of course in India everybody knows that you have to get your Self Realization. Now I should say in India we have many more people, but Russia has also…..

G.: but you are feeling that at this particular time there is more….people are more open everywhere

S.M: of course, of course, thanks to (?) also……horrifying news coming everytime, so many earthquakes, accidents

G.: she saying, she’s mentioning Kali Yuga

S.M: She read a lot I think, it is, the worst kali yugakali yuga is that time, this is the worst time of kali yuga. The kali is the one who when it rains he pulls people into delusion (Sapram), confusion and in that confusion many get lost. Once Kali was called by Nala who were separated him from Damayanti, his wife. So Nala said “I’m going to kill you now” and cut hold(?) of him. So he said, Kali said:”Alright. Listen to my importance and then you can kill me”. So he says that when I will rain, then many people will going into delusion and into mental problems but there will be many who will get their self realization specially those who are searching God and divinity on the dales and dales becoming sanyasis. He said “they will be householders not sanyasi, they will be householders and they will get their realization in my kali yuga. And because of delusion they will seek and seek the truth. There were never so many seekers before, there’s the blessing of kali yuga in a way.

G.: if the doctors have some questions they can stay also

S.M.: this doctor is a Sahaja Yogi and this doctor can ask me, that I know

G.: if you can briefly explain the relationship between Sahaja Yoga and medicine?

S.M.: Medicine? Wow. It’s a long subject….I’ll tell you, listen, all physical ailments come to us through imbalances. As you know we have autonomous nervous system, and we have left and right side of sympathethic and central one’s parasympathetic. Supposing you want to increase the beat of your heart in run you can increase, it’s sympathetic but would you stay sit and bring to the normal, it’s parasympathetic. But doctors know very little about parasympathetic and they cannot control it also. Now like this we have left and right vertebrae joint together to form centre in between. So whenever you exhaust the energy of the centre, you catch it. For example if you are very right-sided, you think for the future, all this thinking about money and progress and all kind, you become right-sided. So this overactivity can give you many diseases. he say give me at(?) a doctor who started working too hard also in the afternoon he used to work and this and that, not took any meditative district. So he got paraplegia, his right leg and right arm became absolutely I should say soon….paralysed. he couldn’t walk but I have told him that now he has some age so he should rest in the day time but he didn’t listen to me and continuously was working. And without telling me he was travelling all over. So then I told him what it is Sahaja Yoga treatment that put your right foot in the water and right hand towards the photograph. And also your put left hand up like that, so the vibrations will come from here and soothe this right side. so also he has bad liver on the right side so here other complications can develop so I told him take liver treatment as in sahaja yoga, there’s a liver diet which you have to take. If you take the liver diet then the right side reduces means you take more vegetables and cooling things. If this heat treat this side, you get paralysis on the right side. So you have to put ice on liver and ice here and for liver sugar is very important, that is medicine. That’s how now he’s alright and he’s walking about. That is how you can even cure paralysis on the right side. Now for example think of cancer which is a very big problem. Cancer can be cured with Sahaja Yoga: we have cured all kinds of cancer. But doctors don’t believe and I tell them that our left side is all our past, but past from the….since all the creation was created. Cancer can come on any one of the centres, cannot say where it truly come but more that you use centre, it works. Say for example sore (throat) cancer, if you shout, if you use your throat too much you catch here. So what happens like this in the centre here like this do vertebrae with it, at the vishuddhi, now suddenly you are shouting, you are doing everything like that you see the energy get lost on the right side. And something suddenly happens to use some sort of a shock, maybe some sort of movement to the left side, emotional side, it breaks. When it breaks, what happens this become solid(?) soon. It grows on its own, means malignancy. Same thing happen with the nabhi, with the stomach, nabhi, where these chakras are, they are working too hard with your nabhi, running after money, thinking about this, the liver goes out of work and maybe suddenly something can happen in your family or anyway in the emotional and it breaks. But now the main problem is liver. First you eat food which is not good for the liver, Italians also. Now this liver has a function to eliminate all the poison away in the blood, it is heat, heat of the body. But when liver goes out of order this heat starts rising up and there is a chakra on the right side here, we call it right heart, so the heat goes there and the person suffers from asthma. And also there is this left movement is there plus this heat. Now there is some young boy, say 25 or less than that, he’s playing tennis and drinks and his liver is out. At that young age he gets a massive attack, massive which is mostly fatal. So now this heat can go to the heart and it can also pass to the left side and you can get diabetes. If it moves downward on the spleen it acts and one can get blood cancer. Alright? Blood cancer, you call it blood cancer? Alright, then leukemia, then if it passes onto intestines you can get intestinal troubles of all kinds: misery, constipation, biles. So with one liver so many problems are there. According to Sahaja Yoga the second centre of Swadishthana works for creating energy also for the brain, for the cells of the energy, for the grey cells, we never think or we think so much and how the energy comes. So firstly when all the organs are affected maybe that this job of sending energy to the brain cells might not work, when the liver is out. And all that she can accumulate on the left hand side because they cross like that. So you can get the paralysis of the right hand side. With this doctor Seth it happened but it has not reached that serious state of paralysis but paralysed, they call paraplegia. So what you have to use is ice here, ice here and you have to take a kind of a food that will not give you heat, you can take to vegetarian food, not for everyone but only for people who have liver. So by one centre being put into trouble how many diseases come, with one centre. But if you cool down, cool down your liver it immediately helps. I’m sorry to say that in allopathy there is no medicine to cool down the liver but in ayurveda there is and with that there are many medicines. I’m also going to start some ayurveda medicines because I know so many……

G.: what is your idea, your opinion about meat?

S.M.: meat, they can eat in case they have no liver trouble, they should eat meat, there’s no problem. But if you have liver, and avoid fish. Fish has potassium, it’s a dangerous thing. What a sort of…….I’ll have some water, thank you. Anyone afraid can ask me a question?

G.: she wanted to know something about you, about your staying in Gandhi’s Ashram

S.M.: yes, you know we were 11 brothers and sisters and my father, he took us to Gandhaji, so he said “ I’ve got”, he said “you’ve got a complete team with you”, he said “you can take anyone you like”. He just pick me up, I was only seven years. And because of my cheek bones very high he used to call me “Nepali”, he was very very kind to me and also with children, very kind. He was also a realized soul but very strict with others. He used to give full whiz(?) except for me nobody could tell relish in the ashram. The food was hard boiled and Indians don’t like that kind you know but I used to eat. We used to get up at 4 o’clock in the morning, take our baths and go for the prayers. And there were snakes on the way and sometimes in the pair they would come in front of human just moving like that. But we could not complain to him. But with others he was very very strict because he said: ”we have to have our freedom, for that we need discipline”. And he used to say: ”I’m very disciplined” so I said: “I’m like that” but everybody can’t be like that. But he was also very meticulous, very meticulous. He had seven stones for going to the bathroom because we have bathroom outside so we walk on the mud, he had put seven stones. And then one day they put one more and he used to count while going count, while back. And then increase one, so he got very angry,” why did you increase, seven are alright because of seven chakras”. Like that he was a very very intelligent man and extremely honest, extremely honest. I remember so many octigens(?) : once there was, the meeting was there and that time it took some time so he said to all “alright, we have lunch here”. and his wife had gone out and she had given the key of the store, so he went and opened the store. And according to the number of people 1600 charka we call it of a sieve was that much is to be taken out, to measure for all of them. So people said so “ Sir we didn’t know you’ll have to do so much work we could never have lunch here”. So he said “what? This is the blood of my country”. He was extremely kind to Me I should say. For his bhajanaudi(?) to see the right potential, he asked me according to chakras you tell me what first, then second, then third and that’s what yet. And he made them all vegetarians so I said “why do you force them like this?” he said “they are all liver patients”. Another thing was that whenever he was unhappy or angry or anything he would not take anything to eat, that was the best way, very childish, so I had……they would ask me to take the glass of orange juice for him, from me he would take. So according about Sahaja Yoga he said that it has to be done but after the independence. Because just now we are a slave country. So you just wait. At that time i was very young also. What sort memories of Mahatma Gandhi……what she said?

G.: How he accepted you?

S.M.: he was a realized soul, that’s it

G.: she says when, how did you realize your inner power?

S.M.: I was born like that…….how do we realize we are human beings?

G.: how did you realize you were different from other people?

S.M.: because, you see, if you are a human being you know you are not animals, but I never show I was different but on the whole I was a peaceful person and forebearing way, forebearing apart for others, very compassionate comparing to them and extremely generous. And I has to be for the poor, so this is they thought I was different. I never used to get angry, never used to shout or anything.

g.: you were not worried about this diversity?

S.M.: I don’t know what is worry 

Sir C.P.: I’m so worried about that…..she would never worry about anything, give it to me

S.M.: I have no fear, no worry

Sir C.P.: so she was so different, that’s how you know someone different. I told you about our house, in my office, everywhere so was different from the rest, that’s how people get to recognize it. She is someone different from others. She can not count money, i’m not an expert myself anyway, she is much worse than me, she can’t count the money, she doesn’t know banking

S.M.: I don’t know how to write a cheque. Banking for me would be really lost

Sir C.P: I’m not a very expert but still I can manage. But I want to say something you do ask why this time is so different. If you see kali yuga, if you see the world today, atomic powers in many countries, atomic

S.M.: so many 

Sir C.P. : we have environment

S.M.: all kinds of problems

Sir C.P. be spoiled everywhere, all over, we have extra beating in the world, the world moving towards disaster. Unless human being reckon now and better you can better human being, start living better, start consuming less of this earth, the world will go to a disaster. So as Krishna said “When time comes I will appear from time to time”. She has appeared now at the right time to tell people still time for you to think change yourself, become better human beings, come together

S.M.: and love, love each and everyone, without any expectations

Sir C.P. people are quarrelling, hindu, muslims, Christian, they are all children of one God. Why fight? What for? People are fighting in the name of one God. After the magnes(?) she says there one divine power they are all children of the same God, please come together. That’s the her message

J.: do you think it’s possible all this?

Sir C.P: it’s happening, it’s happening, you see here, you see the Sahaja Yogis of the world you will find they are really different people from the rest. To me

S.M: yes they are

Sir C.P.: I call them angels, because human beings have been transformed, living in a very different way.

S.M. they are the best people, sahaja yogi, the way they love each other, they care for each other, all over the world

Sir C.P. it’s one human family now. If you go from here to America or Australia, they meet each other and they are all brothers and sisters. It’s not unnatural, it’s natural, it’s true, genuine. And look at his face, it’s a different face, you know

S.M.: he is one of the first Sahaja Yogis

Sir C.P.: I find they are very different, I’m not yet there, that’s why I said I’m an apprentice, I’m trying. But they are truly good transformed people and they are the future of mankind. I firstly think the most marvellous work not because she is my wife because I think the world needs a person to transform it and the time is now: if people take up really and they learn to live together, the world can change. if it doesn’t change. (S.M. I’m already 77, how long I have to be at work) could you believe it? what do you see her age? she is 77. does she look 77?

S.M. but how long I don’t know I have to work now……

Sir C.P. many many work

G.: how can your skin is so beautiful? 

Sir C.P.: Sahaj, approaching the source of Sahaja Yoga. (S.M.: skin?) and I’m 80 and I’m still alive

S.M: always you will have good skins if you take to Sahaj, yea it’s true, isn’t it? 

Voce esterna: we have to go to program

S.M.: any other questions? the doctors do you have any question?

G.: if you can say something about acupuncture?

S.M.: acupuncture is this way that they put your problem on one centre so they take the energy of the other centre and you develop the other problem. so acupuncture was done before by Zen system of people and they were all realized souls so there was no sort question of imbalance, unless and until you are realized you should do that. So you will wide develop some other problem. So best thing is to get the mounting (?) through kundalini so you don’t develop any problems like that. All these letters I tell you even they have Hatha Yoga , they have other yoga and all that is so artificial because they don’t know where is the problem. Unless and until you are realized you won’t know. It’s very dangerous for anyone to do all the asanas, very dangerous. We took and recommend some, one or two asanas to someone who is ….. in very bad shape but normally is not necessary. This is the problem is that so many books have been written, I’ve seen people have written books also against Kundalini. So all these methods without realization are very dangerous. The Zen system I believe in that, but you are not Zens you see, you are more than Zens. Because they have to use some rituals to make you thoughtless. Like they’ll have a big piece covered with stones, with all the lines and some stones here and some stones there. Now you have to sit there and watch there. the idea was that you should not react, you should not say anything just watch, because somebody can said these are like shapes, can say something, nothing to be said, just watch. but it didn’t work. and to the realized soul this has to call “kalchapa” and the head of the Zen system came and he got six or they call me. So I told him “you are not a realized soul how could you head of the Zen?”. He said “I’m not the kalchapa”. and till the 6th century we had kalchapas, after that we had nothing. the Sufis were realized souls, Sufis were realized souls. and we have had many saints who were realized souls. you can make out on your fingertips if somebody is a saint or not. Now they say Christ was the son of God: was he or not, ask Him. He was. call and feel, just feel it, you put together, your feet, you should take out the shoes, just put your hands, just put your hands. Be comfortable, now see like this little low. now see if you are getting any cool breeze or hot breeze. please Don’t close your eyes. Got it, are you feeling? now put your hand here, there might be hot coming out of you, maybe, I don’t know. let’s try on top, on top, here. now there is, cool or hot? 

G.: hot

S.M.: oh dear, let the heat go out, yes. alright now you put another hand like this and see with your left hand, put your right hand like this, it’s alright, it’s alright, you have got already. now see, now better? keep your eyes open. now cooler? see hot, alright I’ll do balance again. are you alright? now better, no here in the fontanel bone area which was so cool, there

G.: she feels hot

S.M: the other way round, the other way round, she has felt it? are you feeling?

G.: what is the meaning of the heat? one….

S.M.: Heat means that you are right-sided, you think too much, to work very hard, all this that, heat has to go out, alright, has to cool, that’s the sign, futuristic, she is alright now, better. This gentleman has got. Walter you see this gentleman has got, your neighbour. from the very beginning she was very receptive, she’s got. what about you madam? not yet. feel hot. don’t think, don’t think

G.: she is thinking too much

S.M.: don’t think too much, futuristic, plan the future, it’s alright…now? cooler? you see him, she cools down. got it, yes. to see it, what about you? you got it? what about the doctors? he’s alright? there was one doctor here, he’s gone out? right side, put him left to the right, put left high, put right down. she has the same problem, she has the same problem, put left to the right. now raise, raise, entangled. done. there is cool. you are alright, you all are alright. you are alright also, little heat will go, alright. where has the other doctor gone?

S.Y.: he has to go Mother, he has the small children.

S.M: thank you

Sir C.P: Thank you

S.M.: now you have to write about this, the fact, the truth, alright? so others can…..that is the best use of Vidya, we have to save also the young people. I’m trying to have a …………. for drug addiction if the government gives the permission, we are trying for drug addiction. that is another courses. I got the place but your government has to give me permission. I beg pardon? yes. I hope they will. because we won’t charge them much, just for their food and stay, because they must be corrected now once this drug is a horrible thing, thank you very much.