Interview at Swiss Hotel. Istanbul (Turkey), 23 April 2001.
Interviewer: Today in Turkey is Turkey’s National Sovereignty and Children’s Day.
HHSM: I know.
Interviewer: And national holiday. Do you have a message for Turkey on this day?
HHSM: Oh my God, I was so many happy about it. See what they don’t understand that what we are doing will have an effect on our children are we creating hell for them?
Interviewer: We should have not, Mother.
HHSM: That’s it. We must think from the children’s point of you. What are we giving them? And today is a great day because I myself I feel that we are really exploiting our children. We don’t think about them and the way we are mad after our own [UNCLEAR], I must say. The way they are going on. But what are you going to give to a children? You have to give them peace. You have to give them joy. Are you doing that? This is only who these elderly people, they have lost their exciting who are caring everyone. You just think of your children they should have a very peaceful, beautiful, joyous country isn’t it? That should be them.
Interviewer: [UNCLEAR] Mother, yes it should.
HHSM: These all journey are not going to live forever
Interviewer: No this is very true, Mother. Mother, you had been awarded several prices for peace including, if I’m not wrong, the UN peace medal.
Interviewer: The peace medal.
HHSM: I don’t know how many I have had, My God. See I don’t care for all award all that. And recently I give one in India. It’s called as Jewel of Humanity, all kind of. I told them I don’t want it, I will not go to Bombay so they came to Pune to give me. But you see these awards and all that are for me have no value. Because so many get it, so many are getting it. I what I don’t want any certificate from any one, I said. I don’t need it. But they want to give. And some don’t want to give also. There are some who don’t want to give, because say I’m not a Catholic, so some people won’t give me. Because I’m not a Christian, they won’t give me. It’s like that, stupid. You see I’m I’m none of these and they do not judge me on [UNCLEAR]. If they judge me on [UNCLEAR] these awards has some meaning but they don’t.
Interviewer: I see Mother. What activities does Sahaja Yoga do worldwide to promote peace and protection of children for example?
HHSM: First and for most thing that we are trying to transform human beings to higher level of awareness. By that you see so many things drop out. For example, your addiction to things like drugs and all that they are drops out. Then so many diseases are cured and the person becomes very beautiful independent personality and collectively conscious, you see. So such a such a group of people we can call such a society which is of enlighten people can change the whole world tomorrow.
Interviewer: Mother, How does a person uptain this this enlightenment, this self-realization as a [UNCLEAR]?
HHSM: You see, there are two things about it that there are now very many seekers of truth all over the world I’ve seen whether they are black, white, yellow anything. They are all seekers of truth. And what happens that they have a power within them. Everyone has in the triangular bone called as kundalini. You can call it by any name. And which rises and gives you this connection with the divine. It’s very very simple thing that works out. But because the time is there, this is the time, also because they are seekers, because they are so genuine [UNCLEAR] that’s also related.
Interviewer: When this kundalini energy rises what are its effects on people and how does a person know that this energy is active?
HHSM: [UNCLEAR] You get a complete transformation. You see depends on how much you perfect it. But firstly as we say there are six enemies human beings have. And these six enemies like anger and what you can call the perversion in sex habits then it is also greed for corruption then also you have got attachments. You see they will become dishonest because [UNCLEAR] son has to be [UNCLEAR]
All this kind of identifications are there. And also pride like we are something great all this. It is ego problem.
Interviewer: Like the seven deadly sins.
Interviewer: Like English says “the seven deadly sins”. Pride, [UNCLEAR], sloth, lust.
HHSM: English have but now they are coming around.
Interviewer: English have.
HHSM: Everywhere has to come [UNCLEAR]. Every action has a reaction and they are realizing it. Now imagine, they have left our country without doing anything about it. How did they manage? So they also care for the world reputation. And things are changing I agree with you they are very much. It is a small country and they thought, they’ve achieved a lot and all that but this is [UNCLEAR].
Interviewer: Mother, is Sahaja Yoga like Sufiism, Islamic Spiritualism?
HHSM: It’s not ism. That is the different between the two. Anybody can call himself a Sufi like this gentlemen who came. He call himself a Sufi but he was just argumentative and he said the worldly so bad this that. But he didn’t know what to say about himself, you see. So it’s not an ism. It is a. Ism means a kind of a, we can say a kind of theory or could be a kind of a group believes in something. It is not like that. Sahaja Yoga is makes you Sufi. Sufi means cleans nirmal. It means it makes you cleanses you. It cleanses you and you get rid of these horrible things and you become a transform personality.
Interviewer: In Sufiism there is a concept of an evil nature in man called nefis and by disciplining this nefis we or the Sufi attains [UNCLEAR] collective consciousness.
HHSM: That is a wrong idea. Most of the Sufis did know how they became Sufi. They were born like that. And the others who talk about it is like Tao who you must heard about Chinese thing, Tao. When they describe a sage, the sage is like this, sage is like that. But how how does he become like that? So that part is missing even in the Sufi theories. How you become a Sufi? Just going round and round you don’t become, by falling a certain code of life you don’t become. What? Kundalini, that has to rise.
Interviewer: So where other forms of mysticism what they try, what they’ve try to achieve where Sahaja Yoga starts? Could you say that?
HHSM: They try to achieve by putting pressures on themselves into all kinds of control and all that. That is not the way. You have to be a free person with kundalini you become a free person, you, nobody has to tell you don’t do this, just you become. Becoming is the point.
Interviewer: Becoming is the point. Mother, how does Sahaja Yoga or a Sahaja Yogi benefit the society in which he lives?
HHSM: He creates a new society of his own. And then by that others are also are helped. Because they see in society where there is no greed, there is no fighting, there is no quarrelling, all living together happily and enjoying each other and understanding. Another thing happens that they start seeing what is wrong with the your own country. What is wrong with your own societies? What is wrong with all the religions that are [UNCLEAR]? He just becomes a kind of a person who sees things. So such a society’s form and these people influence others. That’s how the Sahaja Yoga is spreading so much around. Because I don’t go everywhere now they said [UNCLEAR] this is countries. I haven’t physically [UNCLEAR] half of them. But what happens that one person, who gets it, goes and gives to another. Because it is the truth, you see, it works.
Interviewer: It is amazing. Turkey is located in the middle of several [UNCLEAR] regions, for example Balkans, [UNCLEAR], the Middle East, with its present complect Israel and Palestine. Can Turkey and or Turkish yogis play a role in bringing peace to these regions?
HHSM: Of course, of course, why not, of course. Turkey has one very great blessing; it had so many Sufis here. And if you read them, it’s a description of Sahaja Yogis. They were all Sahaja Yogis. They didn’t call them Sahaja Yogis but they were. Because they are describe to be like this, describe to be like that. And when they tell about their own experiences and all that, in poetry, you are amaze to see, they are talking like Sahaja Yogis only. That is the reason; because of that blessing Turkey has become very important for me also. That spirituality will definitely take a shape here. And maybe I’ve always feel that Islam could be really shown in Turkey very well. And maybe that it will help people to correct their ideas about Islam.
Interviewer: Mother, speaking of Islam, the actions by the Afghan government by destroying the statue of Buddha. How did this, what was Indian’s reaction, what is Sahaji’s reaction?
HHSM: You see, for us [UNCLEAR] they have been a curse all through out. Because for India, you see, India respects everything, all the religion, [UNCLEAR] the only country which respects all the religions in a same manner. So to them it was a shock because it is very historical thing that when Alexander came to Afghanistan, this artist saw the beautiful surrendering’s they had and beautiful mountains they had. And they said we can teach you how to hone the hone the rocks. They taught them there. So Indians were [UNCLEAR] so grateful to them for that. And even they went to this limit to say that it is only they have taught us otherwise we didn’t know how to hone the rocks. They have done so much work like we have got [UNCLEAR]. But then they found one lady called Yakshini who was [UNCLEAR] cowed out that flouted that whole idea. So the Indians knew how to hone the rock but they didn’t want. Because it’s would be in the rock all the time but why not do something that can go to houses and house. So then that idea was gone that is only the Greek start this, doesn’t matter who [UNCLEAR] serve or teach us. I mean they are very very well-known structures and we all respect it very much, no doubt. Not because Buddhist or anything as a piece of art also. But this people have no sense left in their heads. They believe only in destruction. Now by destroying that do you think Islam will spread? What will [UNCLEAR] let you out of it? Otherwise that was the place people used to visit, they used to have tourist all this is finished now. That is the only glorifying thing they have. What else they have. They don’t have Taj Mahal. They don’t have anyone of old temples, nothing. They had only those statues. They had also [UNCLEAR], they don’t know what was there [UNCLEAR] no words you can call it, their inheritance, greatest. Many people went to see that. I also in my relation many people went to see those state as we go to see Egypt. So they have lost at now. What they are there going to see all the dead bodies.
Interviewer: [UNCLEAR] this is trouble, Mother
HHSM: I don’t know. Some sort of an idea they have about Islam.
Interviewer: Mother, it has been a very very great pleasure, asking these questions and listening to your enlighten views. I sincerely hope that I get the pleasure to on the blessing to interview you again future someday.
HHSM: If I?
Interviewer: I say that again. I sincerely hope that I have for I have given the blessing to interview you again in the future someday.
HHSM: Of course, any time.
Interviewer: It is such an honour, Mother.
HHSM: You are a very good interviewer, I must say, because in England, I have had horrible ones. So when you said I am English, I was little frightened.
Interviewer: It must be the effect of Turkey.
HHSM: I think its Scottish are better people definitely. One interviewer came long time back and he started ask me funny question.
First of all he said why are you here in this country? I said I’ve come because my husband has got an appointment; I’ve come with him, all right. But I said I can also ask why did you go to India? He was quite. Then he asked me another question is that what about your population, why don’t you go and do something about your population. Why is it this so much population in India? See I am sorry but if I tell you something, I hope you won’t feel hurt. He says yes tell me why. See the reason is I read the other day in the newspaper. Then in London city itself, every week two children are killed by their parents. He said really. Yes I’ve got that. So what child would like to be born in this country where they can be killed by the parents? He was quite shocked at it. So the children are also going to India and taking birth because there are people who love their children. So they want to be born in India what can we do about it.
Then second question he asked me was very funny about that why are you so poor in your country? I said that true is. Don’t you think you are responsible? He said how, I said 300 years without taking any visa or anything you went there and for three Indians who lived there looted us then what will happen. What will [UNCLEAR] net result of the whole thing? We were one of the richest country once upon a time. But new people looted us, what to do.
Interviewer: [UNCLEAR] right Shri Mataji.
HHSM: Then he came quite.
Interviewer: Mother, while I’ve thought, just came to my mind. I was reading some of the Turkish newspapers, after all it is part of my job and an interview by the Sabah newspaper infect that headline said it was greed that destroyed you, greed that took you down. I believe that was what you told reporters about Turkey’s economic crisis.
HHSM: Ya it is true.
Interviewer: It is true.
HHSM: See the question is they are such artist, some beautiful artist they are you know. They make nice things out of nothing. So I don’t know why they wanted to get after money and ruin their own country. You see art that they have, is sufficient to give them all the blessings of Lakshmi. But they are not, they are not satisfied. They want to make the modern style of money. In that you get lost. You tell lies, you do cheat, you do everything. But as far as art is concern you have producing something great. And that is the real welcome this kind. But one should be satisfied within. The thing is if you want to have, say Rockefeller things then you can’t. You cannot enjoy that. What we are having now in America [UNCLEAR] big one. And everybody is passing through that [UNCLEAR]. But art cannot have the [UNCLEAR]. So they should have taken to their own knowledge of art to all love of art. And they would have been perfectly all right. But they don’t understand their own nature. And running, everybody is trying to become American, I know even in India.
Interviewer: Mother, have you travelled anywhere else in Turkey apart from Istanbul?
HHSM: Not so. I would love to. This time I have gave four days for that. I want to go to different places, see, I haven’t. You see. I am so busy when I am here and then I just disappear. But I would, this time I have been selfish.
Interviewer: Mother, would you like to see Konya?
Interviewer: Would you like to see Konya, the home of Mevlana?
HHSM: [UNCLEAR] anything. I don’t know what programs they have. Because they said Mother had [UNCLEAR] gives us four days for that so I don’t know what is their program whatever it is. I would love to do that.
Interviewer: Ok Mother. I think it is the end of my questions Mother. Thank you.
HHSM: It is a wonderful country; you can do a lot here. I mean such a nice thing even this fellow here Islam, Islam, Islam he too became all right.
HHSM: Now this people [UNCLEAR] Krishna consciousness they spread so much. And I was in LA, I don’t know [UNCLEAR] that is the reason they got so badly exposed. That the boy is small children who were there, children of the so call, what to call them?
SY1: Krishna consciousness.
HHSM: Krishna consciousness. So they have come grown up now. They are adults. And they have put a case against the organizers that they always used to abuses as children. And they had to pay for only one [UNCLEAR] sentence; I don’t know such a lot of money. I mean all this nonsense they started Krishna consciousness this. In that they didn’t get any consciousness of the spirit. How could they do that such a dirty staff? And now they are all false it wasn’t down in America. Of course [UNCLEAR] gone, that is gone, this is finished. But this Krishna consciousness was still going on, I mean. What they are doing is to sell books.
SY1: And make money out of it.
HHSM: To make, just making money, make money like that. And whole thing is exposed.
SY1: Also here Shri Mataji, now that this desire of people becoming spiritually enlightened. The desire is misused a lot by all this wrong knowledge people. They have [UNCLEAR] seminar all kinds of people.
HHSM: There are people.
SY1: They are making seminar, all kinds of people. Even Deepak Chopra was here.
HHSM: Even who?
SY 2: Deepak Chopra.
SY 1: Even he came here to give a seminar. And you have to pay to go to the seminar.
HHSM: He is just making money. He is just making money.
SY 1: And, and a lot of these some people coming I don’t know, some people are asking me they make this kind of workshops in hotels and this and that. It is really.
HHSM: Deepak Chopra is the worst.
SY 1: I know.
HHSM: The worst. He is making too much money.
SY 1: I said many others came also. [UNCLEAR]
HHSM: He was found in a hotel with a prostituted in America. All this thing are there. But you see, all that happen, everything happen. But people get mesmerize I think. They never see this. They are stupid, is the last judgement. At this time stupid will go to stupid. What can you do? Very bad vibrations he has. But best part is he uses my lectures.
SY 1: Yes. He uses all of your lectures. And I was saying somebody must be giving Shri Mataji’s documents to him.
HHSM: Doesn’t matter, still he is telling the lying thing.
SY 3: Shri Mataji, we have a rondeau with the bioenergy specialist man.
SY 2: Bioenergy specialist man.
HHSM: Is he here? All right. But Sadhana has gone out or what.
SY 3: No she is sleeping, resting, she says.
HHSM: She is a sleeping person, all right. You can call him.
SY 3: Jai Shri Mataji.
HHSM: Right Vishuddhi is too much. What is this bioenergy business?
SY 2: They are creating energy out of biological things like [UNCLEAR], or like, or with the wind, the power of the water.
SY 1: Basically Shri Mataji, there are the kind of people who have who have the knowledge to vibrate their energies to heal people. Bioenergist are supposed to be healist, doing what kundalini is doing with the health. Giving vibrations to the areas where the body is blocked. So they some of them by touching, some of them by not touching, but by just giving vibrations.
HHSM: But what he told me is different.
SY 1: This is what bioenergist do. And then they all have different knowledge. But most of them are in basically Russian based now the one we have around here.
SY 1: They are teaching this in Russia also. And they act as healist on giving energy to people’s blockages.
HHSM: Then he finish. Unless and until you have the energy within yourself you [UNCLEAR].
HHSM: Come in, come.
SY 1: He says he is himself psychologist doctor and also he is also in bioenergy and magnetism. And he has an institution, a foundation here in Turkey to teach people and to heal help people with the bio energies. And then three years ago through Majid, he has come and touched your feet and your hands. And he felt enlightened. So this time he wanted to visit you again to sort of get his full, to get his enlightenment process going on.
HHSM: Yeah but the best to do is to give realization to people firstly. If you give realization to people they will get cured. Because that has a power by which you get connected to the all-pervading power. Once you are with then all-pervading power that looks after you mostly.
SY 1: He has also. He is trying to do the same kind of things with their knowledge of using their energies to help others.
HHSM: No. But one should be clear cut about everything, you know. Sometimes it can be dangerous. If you don’t know the whole knowledge and you do something, he might spoil your health and maybe does spoil the health of others.
SY 1: He has been doing bioenergy for 18 years. And he has had his education in India, he says, in Panjab.
HHSM: Panjab. What education he had in [UNCLEAR]?
HHSM: But you have the complete comprehensive knowledge, absolute knowledge about Sahaja Yoga. And then you should work it out because it can create problems.
SY 1: He agrees, Mother.
HHSM: Because I have seen people who have done work. Those they were not such good Sahaja Yogis have harmed.
HHSM: Also they must know the protection. How to protect from others. All these things are complete science in Sahaja Yoga.
SY 1: He says he can see the auras.
HHSM: That he should not.
SY 1: And then he can feel inside if somebody is left or right, he says.
HHSM: On the finger tips, on the hands.
HHSM: All right let’s see, let him see my auras, let’s see what does he see?
SY 1: Three years ago when he first met you, he saw a huge green colour around you, green. And now he says, this time I did not put my attention but when he did a minute ago, he says, he still sees that green with a little bit of purple on top.
HHSM: Green with a?
SY 1: Purple.
SY 1: He felted the first time also. He saw your aura first of all very wide, he says.
HHSM: What is the meaning of the green?
SY 1: Specially when it is mix with purple very deep in the spiritual world very connected, very powerful in controlling the energies around.
SY 1: Green. And also big, big like Mother’s love towards people. That is green. And for the first two times. First time he saw and this time also he is also feeling his heart beat is going up.
SY 1: After meeting you three years ago and got his enlightenment his powers and his feeling observation has grown up immensely. And this time the reason he came here is for that hunger so he wants to have the…
HHSM: What I am saying that it takes hurdy anytime.
SY 1: Also they say, the lady said that they also see a white light coming out of your head going upwards.
HHSM: But when you are in that that you don’t see. When you are in that. When you are outside then you are only see.
SY 1: He says he tries not to see. [UNCLEAR]
HHSM: Not to see is the best state. When you are inside you don’t see.
HHSM: [UNCLEAR] so judging by the aura will be all right but for not for you. You are not there, you have to be inside.
SY 1: Well they he says, he has to think, he is starting from zero so he is learning.
HHSM: So here we have some people, they should come to them and understand Sahaja Yoga very well, mastered it.
HHSM: By that he will be safe himself.
HHSM: One thing. And another thing is whatever he do, will be perfect. No guest work.
SY 1: He wants to be a member of the Sahaja Yoga foundation here. And he wants to have the combinations between also their foundation which is called the bioenergy foundation.
HHSM: But first he must have the knowledge, perfectly.
SY 1: He says we are already in Turkey trying to proof people that this bioenergy is scientific so that’s why I already very well know that Sahaja Yoga is a science.
HHSM: [UNCLEAR] then could be complications, you see, so you must know what is this? What is happening? What people are catching? What are their problems? How to correct? exact.
HHSM: They have to raise the kundalini, give them realization.
SY 1: He is even sending some of his clients, some of his patients to Sahaja Yoga centre.
HHSM: Why don’t you do? You should master yourself.
SY 1: He says, he doesn’t know who to learn it from.
HHSM: All of them. Selim can do.
SY 1: He already knows Selim but he lost his telephone number.
HHSM: Selim is there.
SY 3: Jai Shri Mataji, We have a lot of people.
SY 1: They are coming, they are coming, they say to do the Sahaja Yoga centre.
HHSM: The first point is that first you know yourself. That is Sahaja Yoga.
SY 1: He says he is already trying to project himself from his patients by meditation but if he learns all the technics of Sahaja Yoga.
SY 1: He has some knowledge of Sahaja Yoga. He is reading some but not enough. He should perfect it.
HHSM: And one thing he will not see colours or anything these auras, he will not see.
SY 1: He doesn’t want to see himself either, Shri Mataji.
SY 1: She just realized because she also knew that something she saw also. After she gets deeper and deeper, she started not to see. And she didn’t know why and she got the answer from you.
HHSM: Because if you see from outside, it is there. Supposing you are outside the sea, you can see the sea. But if you sank inside the sea what would you see?
SY 1: There is the compliment since three years ago you become younger Mother. Yes.
HHSM: I’ve go on working like this, I don’t know.
SY 1: He wants to be enlightened more and more. And he would like to hear your last words to them before they live. So that they can regulate their life accordingly.
HHSM: See there are stages in Sahaja Yoga. The one is called as thoughtless awareness, is a, I have made it even shorter than Patanjali.
He said first it should be awareness with the thoughts.
Then second stage he says there should be thoughtless awareness.
Then the second, third stage he says should be what we call “nirvi kalpa” that there should be no doubts but he says first you will have doubts and Samadhi with the doubts. But then you have no doubts. So this is the fourth stage when you go beyond that