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Follow-up Program (to the Albert Hall Public Programme), Holland Park School, Airlie Gardens, Campden Hill Rd, London W8 7AF, London, England, 16 July 2001.
Very happy to see all of you here. Now I can’t say that you are the seekers but you are the ones who have found it.
It’s something so fulfilling. Imagine in the olden days the custom was, I mean, it was so, that one guru could give realisation to one person, with very great reluctance! First they had to go through all kinds of tests, all kinds of tapasya as they call it, very, very strict penance. And out of that they would select one person to get Self-realisation.
Imagine what you have got in such a short time! But, with that long period of ordeal, they developed a great sense of respecting their Self-realisation, of understanding what is this. Understanding their own powers, understanding their own duties. And they were not so many. One single person fighting the whole society with his lofty ideas. While today you are so many, all of you are in fraternity, in love with each other. Nobody is going to torture you, nobody is going to take you to task, but you yourself will feel like spreading Sahaja Yoga, giving love and life to people. It will come spontaneously within you. Like a flower which has fragrance, like that you’ll have the fragrance of spirituality and people will suddenly recognise you because you are so different from others.
Your temperament is so different you are so balanced you are so sweet and they will come around, they will follow you. it has happened very fast in some countries. Like in India they know this, they know Self-realisation and they know that is the aim of life, so it was much easier, it has so many Sahaja yogis.
But we have sahaja yogis all over the world now, even in Greenland, can you imagine, in Finland in Sweden, in Norway. We have Israelis and also Palestinians. They are in Sahaja Yoga. Supposed to be fighting but both of them are in Sahaja Yogi. One Israeli telephoned to me that ‘Mother, there are some Palestinian sahaja yogis in a village and we have learnt that it is going to be bombed. Can you put your attention to that?‘ I was so touched. Look at the amount of care and love they have for the so-called enemies! If this kind of love grows one day all this wars and skirmishes all will be finished, there won’t be any fights if you realise we are all one, just all, absolutely, in one Divinity, in one Divine Power. If that is built in, then all these problems will be solved about which I told you in my lecture (at Royal Albert Hall a few days before).
Actually Kundalini has risen in many of you, most of you. It has pierced also the fontanelle bone area, no doubt, but still it comes down sometimes, comes down to cure you. Supposing you are a liver patient, the Kundalini will come down and put full attention to your liver and try to improve your liver. She looks after you. She is your individual Mother. Everyone has that Mother within you. And that Mother is the one that guides you, looks after you and takes you to the right path. And that’s how you’ll start your new growth in Sahaja yoga. You become a different personality.Then your attention starts moving away from you to others. That’s the sign you are fully grown. If that happens that your attention doesn’t go to yourself, it goes to others and you are worried about others.
It’s very surprising, how this love of the Divine works wonders. I had gone to Russia first time, and I was surprised, twenty-five people from Germany and Austria came there on there own, I never called them, organised their stay and everything. And I said ‘Why are you here? How are you here? How did you come? What is the speciality of Russia?’ And they said, ‘Mother, our forefathers had done so much harm to them so we just couldn’t help it.’ It’s a kind of a tremendous love and understanding about the problems of Russians during war. And they were telling me what all had happened to Russians. I was surprised. I asked them ‘Who told you?’ ‘Our father, our grandfather, who were repenting what they have done. But they are no more now so we thought we had better come and do some service.’ It’s very much touching to me. I have seen such beautiful side of human beings after they have got realisation. No cruelty of any kind, no unkindness, always forgiveness, such a lot of people have become now so sweet.
In Russia we have, as you know, maximum number of sahaja yogis, not more than India, but yes. So many of them are there in Russia, and they are so deep, so much understanding. They never grudge about their problems of money or anything. They said ‘Mother, we have only one problem.‘ ‘What problem you have?’ ‘Of leadership. Give us a nice leader. And now,’ they said ‘we have a nice leader.‘ He has accepted Sahaja Yoga, it’s a religion in Russia. Of course, it is also a religion in India. But actually it is accepted as an official religion in America. Just imagine!
We think that Americans are so materialistic and this and that. They are only 200 year old nation and how have they grown so deep into spirituality, how did they realise this, that, spirituality is the essence of life.
Now I am facing you people who are supposed to be from England and English had these great people right from Shakespeare, William Blake, all of them were realised souls. But what I find in their effort is that they are trying to show so many things for you to understand Sahaja Yoga. But what can they do, because they didn’t know how to raise the Kundalini perhaps, or the people were absolutely deaf and dumb that they didn’t understand what these people tried to convey.
Most of the poets were realised souls. Most of the writers were realised souls. How can it be that such great people are just lost? But now when I see you all here I think of them. They must be very happy to see you all enjoying the bliss, the bliss of the Divine. There’s no end to the description of these things. You cannot describe it fully. It is to be enjoyed. Only thing is, first stage is thoughtless awareness, which you have to achieve. If you have achieved the thoughtless awareness then you have crossed one step. That is the main thing.
You have to become thoughtlessly aware. It’s not difficult. There’s a sanskrit saying that you start saying no to every thought. Whatever thought comes in – ‘Ya neti neti wachane nigamor awachus’. Just go on saying ‘No. Not this thought. Not this thought. Not this thought.’ And you can achieve it. Also raising Kundalini, forgiving people, you can achieve it. Also if you can find out why these thoughts are coming to you, what is the source of this thought. If you could just see what is the source then you can do it. Suddenly you will find you are silent, you are not thinking but you are aware, fully aware and aware of so many things of which you were never aware. It’s something you have to practice, is to become thoughtlessly aware.
This awareness gives a new dimension to your attention. You develop an attention that works, that works. Sitting down here, if you want to think about something, this attention will go and work out the problem. It works out. You can also do it. But if your attention is on small, small things like ‘My father is like this..my sister-in-law is like this‘ all this kind of things, you forget. And don’t condemn yourself either. If you condemn yourself it’s of no use because now you are a realised soul. There is no need to condemn but just to watch without thinking. That’s what is called as sakshi, is the witness state.
That witness state you have to attain and once you attain that witness state you start enjoying everything. Supposing somebody is nasty, you can see the humour behind that. Supposing somebody is aggressive, you can just smile at it. You can see that, poor thing you know, he’s doing something wrong because he can’t help it, or she is mischievous, doesn’t matter, she’ll be alright. An attitude of an innocent personality. You are innocent you don’t see anything wrong with anyone. If you are cunning you see everybody as cunning. But innocence is thousand times blessed by the Divine. The Divine blesses the innocence. Now you might say ‘How is it Mother so many people are killed who were innocent? How it has happened?’ It’s alright, they were not realised souls, and some of them, like Christ, went through through the ordeal. It has a meaning His crucifixion has a very great meaning. For us it is of great help because He crucified himself. Now we can pass through the Agnya chakra.
Every one have, they all of them have helped so much in building up your Kundalini, in helping you and working it out. All their so-called ordeals and sacrifices have done so much which you will understand through your witness state. It’s all like in a garden, everybody has to work, the gardener has to work, then the seed is put in and the Mother Earth has to work and the water has to work and then it sprouts. Still it takes time, then you see when it is a blossom time, all the flowers are there, but behind those flowers there’s such a big effort of people. In the same way, all those people who have put in their effort are within us and they will help us.
With Sahaja Yoga, getting realisation, if you don’t spread Sahaja Yoga then you have done no justice, justice to Sahaja Yoga. You cannot help it, it’s such a thing, just the other way round like a man who is selfish. A selfish man will never like to share but a realised soul would like to share everything with others and enjoy, enjoy the sharing. So many beautiful people come up. They become so beautiful and so nice, so relaxed, so balanced that amazing, you are surprised at yourself that ‘I had all this treasure within me? All this beauty within me? Which I am absolutely enjoying.’ You enjoy yourself you enjoy others you enjoy every little bit of it.
So I bless you all from my heart. So many of you got realisation. As I’ve told you we have to change the destiny of human beings. We have not come here to destroy but we have come here to grown and the destiny has to be changed and that is what we have to work out.
May God bless you.
Derek Lee: “Shri Mataji there are one or two new people here” Shri Mataji: “So what do they want?” (laughter) Derek Lee: “I don’t know if you want to answer questions or ask them to feel…”
Shri Mataji: (laughing) “Alright! Derek is trying to look after you all and he says that there are many new people here and they would like to ask you questions. (laughter) So you see sometimes I’m surprised because you become just like a criminal or you have to confess something. Like yesterday they asked me ‘Are you a Goddess?’ I said ‘Bapare, what should I say?’ I said ‘Do you want me to confess something?’ Then they kept quiet. So now what’s all the questions. Questions should be related to your growth and not to nonsensical things, why waste energy? It’s not a political party or anything, it’s something spiritual. So if you want to ask, ask for your spiritual growth.”
Indian lady asks question in Hindi
Derek Lee: “She says she comes from America and can’t sleep because all things going around in her head so she can’t sleep”
Shri Mataji: “I know about seven languages but I’m trying to learn Italian which is very difficult for me”
Seeker: “Buonasera, pranaam”
Shri Mataji: “That much I know!”
Seeker: “Would you say Sahaja Yoga includes and subsumes other religions or is it a separate religion?”
Shri Mataji: “It includes. Of course, it includes all the religions, all the essence of all the religions. Religion is again step by step is a warning to human beings. How can you exclude? But the essence, the essence of religion, not all the humbug that people have done.”
Seeker: “From deep inside my heart I’d like to thank you for not only what you have done for me but for what you’ve done for thousands and thousands of people all over the world.” (applause)
Shri Mataji: “I hope he’s speaking for all of you? (more applause) So joy giving. Such a joy giving response. I mean it’s like the waves that touch the shore and then again another series of waves start. You see there’s no end to it, it’s so beautiful. Thank you, thank you very much. Any other question?”
Seeker: “Is there a right or a wrong way to meditate?”
Shri Mataji: “There is no wrong way, I don’t understand. I mean, with respect, with respect if you do any meditation it’s perfect, but first of all is your heart and your mind must have respect. In anyway when you meditate, you should do it with love, that’s all. Love will cleanse everything. I mean, if you stand on your head and meditate, it’s alright, but there’s no need to do that! (laughter) Just sit down and meditate. What’s that?”
Seeker: ” What do you think of Sahaja Maithuna to awaken the kundalini?”
Shri Mataji: “If you want you can try. But it’s dangerous”
Seeker: “Are we just play things for a higher being?”
Derek Lee: “He’s puzzled why do we have free will”
Shri Mataji: “You see spiritually people are not matured very much and once they get realisation, because it’s so simple and so easy that they don’t understand the value of it. But those who are matured, those who are real seekers take to it very seriously. It’s no question of free will, it’s your growth, your maturity. Depends on that. Some people are really great seekers and some are alright trying, and some are doing it just because of some sort of a fashion. It should be earnestly coming from your heart that you are seeking the Truth. That’s very important. Those who want to shun the Truth of course are no good, but those who are half-hearted also, they take time, but gradually, with experience, they jump into it.”
Same seeker: “Shri Mataji surely those who are less evolved and less open are the most in need, surely it should come easier to them?”
Shri Mataji: “It is. It is easier for all of you. I mean the way you got realisation nobody could have believed it. I also couldn’t believe, in the beginning, how it is working so fast. But, it works. Like you can say that certain flowers bloom faster than others. I’m not bothered on that point, because if they have the slightest desire to be the Spirit, they become. Also Divine is anxious to give you. ” (applause)
Seeker: “You said meditate with love but I was just trying to think what love is because I don’t really understand about love”
Shri Mataji: “ah! (laughter) I mean, love is a human quality. What is there to understand? People love even dogs and animals. Do you have a dog? (laughter) Love means without any malice, without any anger, something that is desired. It’s such an abstract thing that you cannot put it in words but it’s a feeling within you and when you meditate with love means that supposing you are very angry and you are frustrated then you come meditate and go on saying things like ‘Mother, do this! kill him! Do that!’ It doesn’t work out. But in love means actually it is no thought. Love is no thought it’s just a feeling, feeling of emancipation. Just a feeling ”
Seeker: “How would you describe the benefits of Sahaja Yoga meditation compared with other types of meditation?”
Shri Mataji: “The first and foremost thing is you must feel the vibrations on your hands. Cool vibrations which is the Divine Love of All-Pervading Power. You should feel it coming out of your fontanelle bone area. With any meditation it doesn’t happen, anyone, then that is not correct. This is the minimum that should happen that you should feel your vibrations like cool breeze on your hand and out of the fontanelle bone area. This is the minimum to start. With no meditation it happens. That man in the window.”
Seeker: “What has love got to do with religion?”
Shri Mataji: “It’s the essence of religion is love. Essence. What he’s saying? You can’t hear me?”
Seeker: “People who are involved in religion are often scared”
Shri Mataji: “Correct, I agree, because they are not religious”
Seeker: “Love doesn’t need religion”
Shri Mataji: “Yes of course. Of course. It doesn’t need any name. Love is love. But there is an innate religion within us. Innate religion is the enlightenment of the Spirit. It’s innate. You may call it religion you may call it divine love call it by any name but within us is that source which creates a new personality imbibed with love and that we can call as an innate religion within.”
Seeker: “Is Self-realisation the same as enlightenment?”
Shri Mataji: “Of course. There are many names.”
Seeker: “Is Sahaja Yoga the only path to Self-realisation?”
Shri Mataji: “I should say yes. I haven’t seen any other”
Seeker: “Why do you need to raise the Kundalini to meditate or to get enlightenment?”
Shri Mataji: “That’s how it is made. Why do you connect this (microphone) to the mains? In the same way, you are to be connected. For the connection to the All-Pervading Power your Kundalini has to be raised. Alright?”
Seeker: “How does the Holy Ghost come in to all of this?”
Shri Mataji: “It’s the Holy Ghost only doing everything! When you will come to Sahaja Yoga and will go deep into it you will know. It’s all the work of Holy Ghost. I don’t know why they call it a ghost! (laughter)”
Seeker: “Is it dangerous to open up the seven levels of awareness without proper guidance?”
Shri Mataji: “You see, it’s only which can do it and I don’t think anyone knows how to work it out that way, so it should be done in a proper manner. But Kundalini knows, she knows everything about you, and She knows your problems and when She rises She does it so sweetly without harming you without troubling you, so best thing is to get your Self-realisation established.”
Seeker: “How do you raise the Kundalini?”
Shri Mataji: “Me? Now I can’t you see, what I can do, no use telling you because you can’t do that, isn’t it? You can raise the Kundalini once you are a realised soul, you can also raise, but maybe not like Me. When you reach My stage you will! (applause and laughter)”
Seeker: “Can you tell us about your early life when you first realised about Self-realisation”
Shri Mataji: “You see I think there’s a book about it. Alright? You better read it.”
Seeker: “Can you tell me how we stimulate the Kundalini to rise when we meditate at home?”
Shri Mataji: “I mean they know. There’s a photograph that they use to begin with and that helps. But you must come to centres where they tell you exactly what is to be done. Little bit time has to be given to understand it. You must all come to the centre, how many of you come to the centre raise your hand. See, not even 10%. Please put it down. So it is important that you should go to the centre, master it, become a full fledged, I should say, sahaja yogi and give realisations to others, that’s, your duty bound, you have to do it. Otherwise it’s like what Christ has said that some seeds fell on the rock and some seeds fell in the marshy land and some in the fertile. If you are a person of fertile temperament it will work out. Alright?”
Seeker: “Is Self-realisation when you realise that you are everything?”
Shri Mataji: “When you are a realised soul, if you are that, but do you feel the vibrations? Do you feel vibrations of others? Then you are not it’s just a myth”
Seeker: “It has happened to me but it was such a shock that I came back in to the body”
Shri Mataji: “You better take to, seriously, to Sahaja Yoga. Alright?”
Seeker: “When you describe the state of thoughtless awareness you make it so beautiful it sounds so simple so why for some is it so difficult to achieve?”
Shri Mataji: “I know, I know, I know, but one has to work it out, that you look at something without thinking. Try! Try to do that. I know it’s difficult for some people because too much of thoughts in the mind all the time. Now the thought comes from the left or from the right, that is it comes from the past, from our conditionings, and comes from the right with our ego and futuristic ideas. All the time. So one thought will rise, fall, another will fall and rise and we are jumping on the cusp of the thoughts. But when Kundalini rises, what happens that these thoughts elongate and the space in between is created that is thoughtless awareness. Now how to do it is the problem with people. [By] raising your Kundalini. You raise your Kundalini, raise the Kundalini of others, suddenly you will find that you become thoughtlessly aware. Not difficult. What’s that?”
Seeker: “It’s not a question really, a friend brought me tonight and I came here with a lot of scepticism but I appreciated the directness and the simplicity of what you said and the way you explained things.”
Shri Mataji: “Thank you.”
Seeker: “Is there a reason why the Divine love expresses itself as a cool breeze?”
Shri Mataji: “We should ask the Divine Love about it”
Seeker: “Can you see a day coming when we have a global Self-realisation amongst world leaders so that people don’t starve the way they do at the moment? Can you see that within the age of aquarius?”
Shri Mataji: “This is the Age of Aquarius. This is the Age, but we can’t say how many will be there, saved. We can’t say. If you people work it out you can save so many. But this is the Age of Aquarius no doubt, no doubt. ”
Seeker: “How do you forgive absolutely?”
Shri Mataji: “Whether you forgive or you don’t forgive you don’t do anything. What do you do? Alright? But when you don’t forgive, mentally, then you suffer, not the other person.”
Seeker: “How can you change your heart so that you can forgive?”
Shri Mataji: “Heart is not needed. Only you understand that, whether you forgive or you don’t forgive you don’t do anything. You just say ‘I forgive’ ”
Seeker: “I can say it but I don’t mean it”
Shri Mataji: “You may not mean but it’s a mantra, you just say ‘I forgive everyone’ Alright? It acts. It acts”
Seeker: “Is Sahaja Yoga the answer to a lot of psychiatric problems?”
Shri Mataji: “Who? You?”
Seeker: “Can it solve the problems of schizophrenic problems?”
Shri Mataji: “Of course”
Seeker: “People are investing a lot of money on psychiatric research”
Shri Mataji: “What to do they don’t listen to me!” (applause)
Seeker: “Are you saying there’s a light within us all and we are all part of God and for future generations to come will this benefit the whole world?”
Shri Mataji: “Of course you are?”
Seeker: “Will it benefit future generations? Is this what your trying to do?”
Shri Mataji: “Yes. But what I’m saying is – first you get your realisation established, you get alright, you perfect yourself and then you can do it yourself.”
(same seeker tries to ask the same question again! )
Shri Mataji: “You work it out till I come next time and you won’t ask any questions!” (applause)
Seeker: “Does Mother protect us in Sahaja Yoga wherever we are?”
Shri Mataji: “Of course but I don’t want to say that. You can experience.”
Seeker: “How do I know when I’ve had my Self-realisation?”
Shri Mataji: “You will feel the cool breeze blowing into your hands and out of your fontanelle bone area. That’s the first step, first step.”
Seeker: “When doing Sahaja Yoga is it alright still to use other spiritual stuff like Reiki and Crystals”
Shri Mataji: “No, no! Reiki’s experience has been very bad. No no no no! If you ask me I would say don’t do because I know how people have suffered with that. It’s unscientific.
Now can you all please put your hands towards me and close your eyes. Forget about all the questions…”
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi