"Whatever is not on the tape you should not listen to. Whatever is on the tape is authentic." - Shri Mataji, Vienna, 25 July 1989.
Interview. Versilia (Italy), August the first, 2001.
Journalist: Mi spiace, ma non parlo molto bene l’inglese. (Traduzione di Guido a Shri Mataji: “Sorry, but I don’t speak English very well”).
Shri Mataji: But I do not know Italian, little bit.
Journalist: Allora, Grande Madre, nasce il 21 marzo alle ore 12 a Chindwara nel sud dell’India, quali sono i suoi primi ricordi della sua vita? (“You are born on the 21st of March in Chindwara, what are the first souvenirs, the first memories of your life?”)
Shri Mataji: Even my birth. My memory is very good.
Journalist: Cosa si ricorda della sua nascita? (“What do you remember about your birth?”)
Shri Mataji: That I was born very clean, and there was not any blood or anything on my body and I was not attached to any ombelical cord or anything, and my mother saw me and she said: “She is absolutely without any spots so she called Nishkalanka”
And my father’s aunt was there and she said: “No, that’s a name of a gentleman, so you call her Nirmala, means spotless also means immaculate.” I remember all that.
Journalist: Cosa ricorda della sua adolescenza passata in gran parte accanto a Gandhi? (“What do you remember about your childhood, your young age next to Gandhiji?”)
Shri Mataji: See, my father had taken all the children to Mahatma Gandhi, and Mahatma Gandhi said: “You have a big team with you.” My father said: “All right, it’s all for your work.” He said “Give me one.” They picked me out and so I was there from the age of five years with him, I used to go back to my parents for my studies, again on holidays, Saturdays and Sundays I used to be with him.
Journalist: Lei ha studiato medicina e psicologia, come mai questa scelta? (“You have been studying medicine e psychology.”)
Shri Mataji: Yes, first I did matriculation then my interscience in Ludiana and then I joined medical college but the war broke out and I had to return.
Translator: But She said why did you choose medicine.
Shri Mataji: Because I had to speak to the doctors also. Yesterday there was a doctor in the group, and I had to explain to him. I knew all these things but I didn’t know the names, so just to learn the names I joined the medical college.
Journalist: A che tipo di medicina era interessata? A che tipo di cure? Perché in India ci sono diversi tipi di medicina. (“Which sort of medicine you were interested? I mean alternative or homeopathic or traditional.”)
Shri Mataji: No traditional, traditional it was MBBS as we call it.
Journalist: Quali erano da fanciulla i rapporti con la sua famiglia, con i genitori? (“What was your relationship with your parents, with the family?”)
Shri Mataji: Wonderful. They all respected me very much and my father was himself a realised soul, so he used to respect me very much, I never had any problem with them.
Journalist: La cosa più bella… C’è una cosa molto bella che si ricorda della sua infanzia, della sua adolescenza, giovinezza? (“Any particular beautiful thing that you remember about your childhood?”)
Shri Mataji: Life was so beautiful, I do not know which one to tell you, but I used to walk barefeet and a new driver had come in the house and he came to receive me, he came to receive me in the school and so he said how will I recognise your daughter, so my father said that she is the one who walks barefeet with her shoes in her hands
Journalist: C’è anche una cosa brutta che le è accaduta? (“Do you remember anything bad which happened to you in childhood?”)
Shri Mataji: Lots of things like poverty I saw, and I had a friend – she was from a very poor family and one day she was looking so unhappy. I asked her what’s this thing on my way back from school. So she said today I have not eaten because we have no grain in the house, so I felt terrible about it, I went back to my house and I had the keys, I opened the stores, we had lots of things in the store so I took two bags, three bags, one of them was containing rice, another was what we call “pulses dal” and a third one of flour for making bread, and asked the driver to took these three (bags) and deliver in her house.
So my mother came and she said what is this, what are you doing, I said: “We have so much here, why should she have something?” So I gave her.
Journalist: Tutte le bambine hanno dei sogni. Cosa sognava Lei da giovane per il suo futuro? (“Every child has dreams, what were your dreams about your future when you were a child?”)
Shri Mataji: I never get dreams, I am sorry to say.
Journalist: Il matrimonio a soli vent’anni con Sir C.P. è stato un matrimonio d’amore? (“Your marriage was a love marriage? It Was a love marriage as they do in the West or it was an Indian marriage arranged by the family?”)
Shri Mataji: Yes, arranged by the family, because I was in Lahore studying and the war broke out between India and Pakistan and I had to come away. My college was closed. I didn’t want to marry actually, but that was such a time that parents said, ‘Now you better marry, your college is closed.’ So then I married.
Journalist: Che cos’è l’amore per Lei? Che cosa significa? (“What is love according to you?”)
Shri Mataji: What is?
Shri Mataji: You cannot define, it’s like an ocean, it is not a concrete thing but is just a feeling within you and which looks after everything.
Journalist: Ha due figlie femmine, che rapporto ha con loro? (“What is your relationships with your daughters?”)
Shri Mataji: Wonderful, they are very sweet daughters, now one is already a grandmother and now another one is also a grandmother, I am great-grandmother.
Journalist: Con tutti gli impegni che ha, come riesce, come è riuscita a fare la Madre e la moglie? (“How did you manage with you private family life and all the rest you are doing in the World?”)
Shri Mataji: If you have love you can manage everything, your children also love you very much, your grandchildren, great-grandchildren, everyone loves you and husband also understands the very important thing of my life, that I want to transform people.
Journalist: La sua famiglia è stata qualche volta un ostacolo per la sua libertà di pensiero, di viaggiare e girare il mondo? (“Your family was sometimes an obstacle for your mission?”)
Shri Mataji: Never, never.
Journalist: Qual è stato il momento in cui ha scoperto i Suoi poteri, questo dono naturale che ha? Che cosa ricorda di questo momento? (“When did you discover your innate powers?”)
Shri Mataji: I had it from my birth but what I had to discover is the way to give self realisation to people, how? That was my problem.
Journalist: Cosa rappresenta per Lei tutta la gente che la segue? Che cos’è? (“What are representing all your followers for you? All those who are following you what are for you, according to you, what they represent for you?”)
Shri Mataji: You see, actually when you get your self realisation you become your own leader and I don’t have tell them anything, they are very special people.
Journalist: Qual è la prima cosa che insegna ai suoi seguaci? Ai suoi figli? Possiamo chiamare figli coloro che la seguono? (“What is the first thing you’re teaching to your children, if we can call them your children, your followers?”)
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. I just tell them that you know your Self, Know thyself as said in the Bible, and everywhere you have to first know yourself. Without that you don’t understand the truth, the real truth.
Journalist: Qual è il ruolo della donna nel mondo secondo Lei? (“What is the role of women in the world?”)
Shri Mataji: Very important, they are the power actually, and not only that but they are the source of love and they cannot be described in a short way, they are wonderful, they don’t realise what is their power is, they are tremendous.
Journalist: Lei insegna a trovare il proprio Sé per essere felici. Che cos’è la felicità? (“You are teaching us how to find our self, to be happy. What is happiness according to you?”)
Shri Mataji: Happiness is to become the Spirit, the Spirit is Joy, is Peace so you have to become that. So far you are just your body, mind and all these things but inside is the Spirit, is the reflection of God within you. Once you become that you are full of Joy.
Journalist: Cosa significa andare verso la luce? (“What does it mean going towards light?”)
Shri Mataji: Means enlightenment, we have no enlightenment when we are born, mostly and we are seeking and we are running after this and running after that. Once you become the Spirit you know there is nothing to seek now, is finished, and you feel over-satisfied.
Journalist: Qual è la sua idea della morte? Può essere una guarigione la morte secondo Lei? (“What is your opinion about death? Can it be even a healing process?”)
Shri Mataji: Death is nothing but changing your body, is that. But after realisation death is a just kind of a mastery you have, whatever you want you can do because you are so free.
Journalist: Qual è il suo rapporto con la reincarnazione? Quante vite passiamo sulla Terra? (“About reincarnation, how many lives we are changing on the Earth?”)
Shri Mataji: Depends on the personality, people incarnate again and again no doubt about it – and whatever is their desire they incarnate in that. For example supposing a woman wants to marry some man and she cannot marry, then next life she marries him and learns a lesson for life. (laughs)
Journalist: Nella sua vita precedente aveva già questo dono naturale? Era già questa grande Madre che abbiamo adesso di fronte a noi? (“In your past life you were already the Great Mother?”)
Shri Mataji: Yes, I was, I was, no doubt.
Journalist: Lo sarà anche in quella futura? (“And also in the next one you’ll be the Great Mother?”)
Shri Mataji: Of course.
Journalist: Che cos’è il bene? (“What is goodness?”)
Shri Mataji: What is goodness? Goodness is what is not bad, how can you say? But goodness cannot be described, it’s temperament, it’s state of mind where do you everything good, it’s a state of mind.
Journalist: E che cos’è il male? (“What is bad?”)
Shri Mataji: What the bad is we know very well, that: to do something like cheating, like hurting, killing, all these things are bad, they are actually banned by the ten commandments.
Journalist: Chi è il suo Dio e chi è Dio? (“Who is God and who is your God?”)
Shri Mataji: Is the same, everybody has only one God. But God has many aspects it’s not only like I say always Rock of Gibraltar – it is a God who has desire and creates this Holy Ghost out of this desire and then She creates all this World and he has many many aspects, He is a spectator of the work of the Holy Ghost and if everything goes well, He is happy, but if anyone tries to upset the work of the Holy Ghost then he destroys and then he comes into play in His own way. Otherwise is He is just a spectator.
Journalist: Perché secondo Lei esistono tante religioni? Non si potrebbe creare un unico movimento che unisce tutte le religioni? (“Why there are so many religions, could not be possible to have one global religion?”)
Shri Mataji: Yes. You see this has come out, out of selfishness, they want to use religion for their own purposes, for making money, for having slaves, all kinds of very low ideas and they entered into religions and that’s how the religion became separate – otherwise there is only one religion, global religion of LOVE.
Journalist: Cosa significa Sahaja Yoga? Come possiamo spiegarlo a chi non sa nulla di questa…? (“How can be explained in short, Sahaja Yoga?”)
Shri Mataji: Is the shortest thing, I think, Sahaja Yoga, see because there is an energy within you which is placed in triangular bone, called as sacrum, which connects you to the all pervading power of divine love which you call as Holy Ghost. And with that power you become yourself a person endowed with all the powers of love, of transforming others as you are, and you become a person of absolute peace and tranquillity and of great understanding of the secrets of life and you try to help everyone.
Not only that but you enlighten the whole world, and by that you can change the world, because all that is dangerous, injurious has come from human beings. If human beings are changed we can have a wonderful world.
Journalist: Come è nato Sahaja Yoga? (“How Sahaja Yoga started?”)
Shri Mataji: Started. It has been always there, I mean all the Saints, all the Sufis, all of them were Sahaja Yogis because they were connected with the Divine – so it is no question of starting it was always there, people have been seekers since long, so they found out; but in a million one person. Now my idea is to convert and transform people into the new realm en-masse, collectively.
Journalist: In una parola, può dire qual è il messaggio che manda all’uomo? (“What is your message to humanity?”)
Shri Mataji: My message to humanity is: that you all should get transformed you should become the Spirit, that is how you know yourself.
Journalist: Che cos’è la ricchezza? (“What is wealth?”)
Shri Mataji: See, money is of no value, if you don’t know how to use it. Money should be used for the betterment of others, it should be used for giving expression to your love, and should not be just used for yourself and your family but should be enjoyed by giving it to others who deserve it, not to everyone but who deserves it.
Journalist: E la povertà? (“What is poverty?”)
Shri Mataji: Power is what does good work.
Transl.: Poverty, poverty.
Shri Mataji: Poverty, is again the same thing is again negligence of people who want to take money all the time, extract money. But with Sahaja Yoga I have seen all them have become all right, they all have got jobs, they are doing very well because of the blessing of the Goddess on them, so they all are very much changed.
Journalist: Che messaggio vuole dare all’uomo per evitare la guerra, le cattiverie? (“What would you suggest to mankind in order to avoid wars and bad things?”)
Shri Mataji: Once you become a realised soul, when you become sahaja yogi, in the real sense of the word, then you don’t fight there’s no question – because you become collective, you live collectively you think collectively, you enjoy everything collectively and you become a just global personality so there is no question of war. Now we have people, say, from Israel we have people also from Muslims, so many Muslims are our sahaja yogis, sahaja yogis. In a place called Benin there’re twenty-thousands Muslims who are sahaja yogis. They don’t fight. Then also there are many other communities like we have Hindus and Christians and Sikhs, Muslims, all of them – they have come to Sahaja Yoga if you asked them what is your religion, they will say I am a Sahaja Yogi! Is global, all over the world – now they are telling me in 92 countries they follow Sahaja Yoga.
Journalist: Mi sono meravigliata vedendo quanti giovani la seguono. C’è qualcosa che vuole dire a loro? (“I was amazed to see so many young people which following you.”)
Shri Mataji: Yes.
(Q. “There is anything you want to say to the young generation?”)
Shri Mataji: They are seekers, they are special people who are born in this hour to seek the truth. But if do not give the truth they take to drugs, they take to all kinds of wrong things, they are seekers of the Truth, that’s why. Very great people they are.
Journalist: E quando una persona sta male, si avvicina a Lei per chiedere aiuto, quale è il suo rapporto? Che consiglio gli dà? Si può considerare una guaritrice Lei? (“When anybody who is sick comes to you, what is your advice, can we call you as healer?”)
Shri Mataji: I don’t give any vocal advice or …there’s nothing, just they are coming to me, works out itself, because I have got power of love.
D.: Esistono specialmente in questo periodo dei falsi guaritori. Come possiamo riconoscerli per difenderci da loro? (“There are so many false healers and gurus, how can we recognise them?”)
Shri Mataji: See, I told you yesterday that if he is a real guru, if he’s a false guru, you can easily find out if you are a realised soul – if you are enlightened you can put your hands towards that person and you might get blisters on your hand or might get heat from them. But if he is realised soul you get cool breeze blowing into you.
Journalist: Cosa pensa di Sai Baba? (“What do you think about Satya Sai Baba?”)
Shri Mataji: You can see his face and I need not give you any opinion.
Journalist: Chi è stato il suo Maestro nella sua vita? (“In your life did you have any master, any teacher?”)
Shri Mataji: No.
Journalist: Che cosa significa spiritualità? (“What is according to you spirituality?”)
Shri Mataji: Spirituality is when you are enlightened by your Spirit, when the light of the Spirit shows you the right path, straightforward, that’s what is Spirituality. It’s not just talking about it, it’s not just preaching about it, but it is something within you that should happen, that you can see for yourself what is right and what is wrong, then it is Spirituality.
Journalist: C’è un allievo che può diventare un giorno una Grande Madre? (“Do you have anybody that one day can become the Great Mother?”)
Shri Mataji: All of them! All the Sahaja Yogis can become.
Journalist: La famiglia oggi è sempre più sbriciolata. Che consiglio vorrebbe dare per la famiglia che non esiste quasi più? (“Nowadays the family is more and more disintegrated. Which advice would you give?”)
Shri Mataji: In Sahaja Yoga?
Translator: No, outside in the whole world, the family is more and more disintegrated. What advice would you give to families?
Shri Mataji: No, they get integrated, because they don’t understand love, they don’t enjoy love, that’s why. Then, once you start enjoy love, all others nonsensical thing drop off.
Journalist: Ho notato, sul volto dei suoi figli che la seguono, una luce particolare. Come può spiegare la gioia che vedo nei loro occhi? (“I noticed in all your followers a particular light. How can you explain this light, this joy that they are expressing?”)
Shri Mataji: Light on the face or light in the eyes?
Journalist: Tutte e due. (“Both”).
Shri Mataji: That you’ll find with all enlightened people, all the people who are enlightened have a light, means their whole being is enlightened, whole being, you can see in the eyes there is a light sparkling, you can see on the face, light sparkling because they are not dull people. No more dullness. All the sleeping conditions are gone, all aggressive conditions are gone, and they are in balance.
Journalist: Quali sono stati i problemi che ha incontrato all’inizio esponendosi e viaggiando nel mondo? (“What are the problems that you had to face travelling in the world in the beginning?”)
Shri Mataji: In the beginning. In the beginning, you see it was difficult, because some people who were bad gurus or who were following wrong paths tried to oppose me, but the young people who were seekers they never listened to them, and so the all the criticiShri Mataji are dropped now, no more criticiShri Mataji for me.
Journalist: Cosa significa karma individuale? (“What does it mean individual karma?”)
Shri Mataji: They disappear, they just disappear, they’re dissolved, all your karmas are dissolved, you have become the Spirit, the pure; they are no more there.
Journalist: Esiste il destino secondo Lei? (“The destiny, the fate, the destiny, is existing or not?”)
SHRI MATAJI.: Only one destiny is there: that you become the Spirit, that’s the destiny, then the Spirit takes over and It looks after you. There no expectations about anything, when there is no expectations, there is no disappointment.
Journalist: Lei è sempre al servizio dell’uomo: cosa prova, che sensazione prova? (“You are always taking care of humanity. What are your feelings?”)
Shri Mataji: I enjoy, like a mother enjoys with her own children.
Journalist: Qual è secondo Lei il nostro compito sulla terra? (“What is our goal in life?”)
Shri Mataji: To become the Spirit, nothing else.
Journalist: Perdonare significa guarire? (“To forgive means to heal, to cure?”)
Shri Mataji: Yes, you must forgive because as said that whether you forgive or you don’t forgive you don’t anything, but if don’t forgive then you play into wrong hands and torture yourself.
Journalist: Che cos’è la Divinità? (“What is Divinity?”)
Shri Mataji: Divinity is when you are one with the Divine, when there is the Divine flowing through you, that is Divinity. Divine is the thing that is the opposite of negativity. Is very beautiful and it makes you beautiful, makes everyone beautiful, that is what is Divinity is – it’s the blessing, blessing of God Almighty.
Journalist: Lei ha mai incontrato il Papa? Cosa pensa della Chiesa, e cosa pensa la Chiesa di Lei? (“Have you ever met the Pope? And what is your opinion about the Church and what is the opinion of the Church about you?”)
Shri Mataji: You will find very soon about it, I don’t have to tell you.
Journalist: Quando i suoi figli pregano, lo fanno davanti alla sua immagine. E Lei invece? (“Your children are praying in front of your photo. Are you praying?”)
Shri Mataji: I am in prayer all the time myself (laughs).
Journalist: Mio figlio, che ha quattordici anni, quando sono venuta qua ieri per incontrare Lei, mi ha detto, mi ha chiesto: “Chi è la Grande Madre?” Io non gli ho saputo rispondere, gli può rispondere Lei? Così gli farò sentire…(“Her son is now 14. So yesterday, when he knew that she was coming for the interview, he asked her who is the Grande Madre, so she didn’t what to answer exactly. Would you suggest an answer: who is the Grande Madre?)
Shri Mataji: Actually, you see, at this time of the world, people are seeking, they are special times when the seekers are born, they are seeking the truth, they are not interested in other things but they just want to know what the Absolute Truth is, and that is what I have to give the answer and I have come for that work.
Journalist: Una cosa che ho notato guardando il suo volto che ha tante espressioni, se guardo piccoli pezzi, gli occhi sembra una bambina, è stranissima questa sensazione che mi dà, non riesco a capire perché mi dà tutte queste sensazioni. (“She is saying that looking at you face she can catch so many expressions: the eyes are like a child…”)
Shri Mataji: It is the innocence which is never killed, which is never destroyed in human beings – only it’s like some clouds coming over on the sky in some people who have gone against the innocence, but when the innocence shines then you are like a child: you forgive people, and you make people happy, all kind of things happen as a child automatically works out that.
Journalist: Possiamo concludere con una cosa bella, un suo pensiero senza domande, per il mondo, per l’uomo… (“She would like to conclude with your message or one of your thoughts for the humanity.”)
Shri Mataji: All right, she can come anytime and I would like to tell her whatever she wants.
Translator: A message for humanity?
Shri Mataji: Message? I have already said that you have to become the Spirit. You are to be born again and that born again is that you know your Self. This is what we have to do; a man or a woman unless and until he is transformed we cannot change this World, we have to change the whole World.
Journalist: Thank you, very much. Senta, posso baciarla? (“Thank you very much, may I kiss you?”)
Shri Mataji: Such a great study, Such a great study, just don’t put Mr.Pope there.
Journalist: E la cosa più bella che abbia fatto nella mia vita, diglielo! (“She is saying is the most beautiful interview in her life.”)
Shri Mataji: Really, thank you very much.
Intervistatrice: I am very happy!
Shri Mataji: I am also thankful to you because you ask, really, very direct questions.
I am very happy I never had such a interview before. Loving.
Journalist: Thank you very much. Mi piacerebbe fare la cosa che abbiamo fatto ieri.
Translator: She would like to…
Shri Mataji: Feel it.
Shri Mataji works on and gives vibratory advice to the lady.
Shri Mataji: May God Bless you. Thank you very much, thank you very much I said, thank you (Intervistatrice: Thank you). You can do a lot with this interview for Italians, they need it very much. They are very nice people, in the whole of Europe, Italians are the best. May God bless you.
Shri Mataji: May God bless you.
(The journalist says she feels very emotional).
Shri Mataji: May God bless you.