How you can reach to the state of self-realisation?

Caffè della Versiliana, Versilia (Italy)

2001-08-31 How you can reach to the state of self-realisation? Versilia Italy DP-RAW, 81'
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Interview / Public Program at the “Caffè della Versiliana”. Versilia (Italy), 31 August 2001.

Romano Battaglia: Bene, cominciamo allora, la Grande Madre comincerà a parlare e spiegare come si può giungere alla realizzazione del Sé. Prego. [Well, let’s start then, the Great Mother will start talking and explaining how to get Self Realization. Please.]

Shri Mataji [to Romano Battaglia]: It’s very kind of you to have invited Me to this meeting.

He has asked Me to explain to you how you can reach to the state of self-realisation. It’s a very important thing to understand, because so far we have been living only with human awareness. Human awareness is not sufficient enough for us to lead a very happy life, especially collectively. But we have to know that our Creator is a very great, very understanding personality, is a Divine personality. And He has placed within us all the arrangements to get our self-realisation.

Self-realisation is the connection with the all-pervading power of Divine Love. For that within us is placed, in the triangular bone called as sacrum, a power. All human beings have this power in the sacrum bone. Sacrum means sacred, and Greeks also knew that it was a sacred bone, so they called it sacrum. So it’s already there, and it has that power which is in three and a half coils. All of you have got it. Now only problem is how to raise this power to connect you to that Divine Power.
Now there are little problems with all of us, and we have six centres which are to be crossed. And these centres are responsible for our physical, for our emotional, for our intellectual, for our spiritual being. So this power has to cross through them, that’s the problem. So this power is to be awakened, which is very, very simple. Because it wants to be awakened. Now, it awakens by itself, but you need some support. You have to get to somebody who is already a realised soul, who can awaken your power. That’s all.

Then, when it rises, it pierces through those six centres, and pierces through the fontanel bone area. And you feel a cool breeze coming out of your own fontanel bone area. And once you get that experience, then also you feel on your hands, on your fingertips this is happening, is the cool breeze on your fingertips.
All these five fingers also represent – also here [base of palm] and here [centre of palm]– seven centres.
And once you get this experience, you can also feel on your fingertips the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost. This is actualisation of baptism, actualisation. It is not any kind of a ritual, it’s a evolutionary reality. And it works wonders. It can cure your health, it can give you the mental peace, it can give you complete tranquillity. And also you can feel your own problems. And also you can get over them. Also you can solve the problems of others. You give up all bad, I should say, all bad habits, bad things that spoils your health. Like, say, drug addiction, just drops out.

You become a very independent personality. Full of joy. And you are amazed you know yourself. You know yourself, that you are a higher human being.
[To Romano] What is the next question?

[Romano Battaglia asks Shri Mataji to give Realisation to the people who are present.]
Shri Mataji: Give the experience!
[Shri Mataji laughs]
So fast as that! Alright.
Romano Battaglia: Ho chiesto alla Madre se può fare un’esperienza qui, di fronte a voi. [I asked to the Great Mother if She can make an experience here, in front of you.]

Shri Mataji: Before that I would request you not to smoke, because you have to pay attention to it, that is better. You have to just put your both the hands towards Me like this, that’s what. And you have to little bit remove your shoes, will be better. Because this Mother Earth sucks in your problems. Alright. Now please put both the hands towards Me like this. You can close your eyes. Please close your eyes.
Now with your left hand try to feel if there’s a cool or a hot breeze is coming out of your fontanel bone area, which was a soft bone in your childhood. If it is hot, then you have not forgiven. You have to forgive everyone. Little higher, little higher. Whether you forgive or don’t forgive, you don’t do anything. If you don’t forgive, then you play into wrong hands. So say that “I forgive everyone”. Don’t think of them, just say.

Now. Please put your left hand towards Me like this, and the right hand on top of your fontanel bone area. Now again put right hand towards Me, once more, and put the left hand on top of your fontanel bone area.

It’s nice, they have got it.
All those who have felt… It’s nice…
Should forgive! Please forgive everyone. Now, please put both your hands towards Me. Now. All those who have felt cool or hot breeze on their both the hands, or one hand, raise your hands!
All of them!
May God bless you.

Shri Mataji: [About a lady in the front row:] This lady didn’t do anything. So how can she feel? This one with the pink dress. She’s the only one who didn’t feel.
Alright. Who else has not felt? Alright. We’ll see you. Very few. She was smoking, that’s why. Were you smoking before, Madam?
It got caught up here [Shri Mataji: touches Her throat]. Is alright, we’ll work it out, we’ll work it out.
Sahaja Yogi: talking to Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Then four or five.

Guido: Which good can do this for humanity?
Shri Mataji: Hum ?
Guido: Self Realization, which good can bring to humanity?
Shri Mataji: Who?
Guido: Good.
Shri Mataji: Good? Alright, what good.
Now. Goodness about it.
First of all, as there are so many things, but I’ll tell you few. Tell them, it’s so many things.
[Guido translates]
Shri Mataji: First of all it makes you peaceful. Then it gives you knowledge about yourself. It shows what’s wrong with you. You have to just know how to correct.

And it will work out. Then you give up all bad habits in no time. If you have diseases, they can be cured. Then the relationships between your family, in collective, completely changes. And you become a very sweet and a beautiful person. There are so many problems we have in this world. These problems get solved because we all become global. No more quarrelling, no more fighting, nothing. It keeps you young, happy, and collective. You become such a, what should I say, non aggressive person, that all these world problems of fight, war, all finishes off. We have to change this world. By changing human beings, transforming them only, we can change it. Now you have to grow into it also, that’s very important. Then you become a master yourself. We have so many masters in Italy. Anything else you want Me to tell you about?

Lady: You have been talking about the Holy Spirit, which is for me – I’m catholic – it’s a problem, because I’ve taken many, many years to understand.
Sri Mataji: What did she say?
Lady [with a mike]: What do you think about the Holy Spirit?
Shri Mataji: Holy Spirit is everywhere. It’s everywhere. It’s a power of God’s desire. It is everywhere.

Man from the public: Perché è stato scelto l’osso sacro come punto di partenza di attivazione della Kundalini, diciamo dell’energia vitale? [Why has been chosen the sacred bone as the starting point of activation of the Kundalini, let’s say of the vital energy?]
Guido: he says, I fully agree with your principles .. Why it is placed in the sacrum?
Shri Mataji: Sacrum bone is a very well-guarded bone, very well-guarded. And also that the desire, one has to be according to the Divine. It’s a very sweet question.
Same man: In effetti c’è una corrispondenza fra le linee di energia ed il sistema sottile di cui parla la Venerabile Grande Madre, e i due meridiani centrali della dottrina taoista cinese. Ed in effetti è l’attivazione di questi meridiani che porta a questo principio di benessere. [Actually there is a correspondence between the energetic lines and the subtle system the Venerable Great Mother talks about, and the two central meridians of the Chinese Taoist doctrine. And actually it is the activation of this two meridians that brings to this beginning of wellbeing.]
Guido: There is a very closed connection between the different chakras and the two meridians which are spoken in the Tao.
Shri Mataji: It’s true. You see, we have sympathetic nervous system and parasympathetic nervous system. Sympathetic when they meet each other, they form the parasympathetic. And the parasympathetic, on that one, is made all the chakras, the centres. So it passes through these centres, connecting completely all these six centres with the Divine Power. It’s a subtle thing.
Shri Mataji to someone: Just a minute. What is she saying? She should have- [Romano Battaglia takes the mike out of the hands of Shri Mataji]

Other man: Com’è possibile in questo nostro tempo, cosiddetta “New Age”, distinguere i veri dai falsi profeti, i maestri spirituali dai ciarlatani? Quest’epoca piena di mercanzia dell’occulto, di falsi esoteristi, di falsi guru – come possiamo scegliere, e capire se una persona è un vero maestro spirituale o un ciarlatano, un truffatore? Grazie. [How is it possible in this time, so called “New Age”, to distinguish true prophets from false ones, spiritual masters from deceivers? This epoch is full of occult merchandise, of false esoteric and false gurus – how can we choose, and understand if a person is a real spiritual master or a deceiver? Thanks.]
Guido: How can we make out, today, who is a false prophet and a real prophet?
Shri Mataji: Who’s a ?
Guido: How can we make out who is a false guru and a real guru?
Shri Mataji: Now it’s very easy, that if it is a false guru, then you can feel on your fingertips the heat, sometimes you have blisters from that person.
And if he is a real guru, if he’s a good fellow, you can feel the cool breeze in your hands.
Like Romano. [Shri Mataji laughs].

Romano Battaglia: Grazie. Io ho un amico apicoltore che mi racconta che, quando porta le persone a visitare gli alveari, alcune persone li visitano e non accade nulla; altre persone, con vibrazioni negative, vengono assalite dalle api. Pensate, questi piccoli esseri che capiscono già molto. [Thanks. I have a friend, a beekeeper, who tells me that, when he brings people to see his bee hives, some people go and nothing happen; while other people, with negative vibrations, are attacked by bees. Think of it, these tiny beings understand so much!]
Guido: He’s talking about bees. He is saying that, when he brings some friend or some people, they are attacking, somebody else, they don’t.
Shri Mataji: It’s true. Even the snakes, they know, everybody knows. But you have to grow, we have to grow into it, you have to become like those trees are.
What’s she saying?

Another lady: Mi ha colpito molto che Lei abbia chiesto di non fumare. Questo mi ha aperto completamente verso di Lei. Io ho fatto tutta l’esperienza ma non ho sentito né caldo né freddo. Poi ho visto che quasi tutti hanno chiesto perdono per aver fumato, per aver fatto tanto male, perché ci sono altre persone che soffrono per il fumo altrui. Poi ho visto le persone alzare le mani, e dovevano essere trasformate; ma poi hanno ripreso a fumare davanti a me. Voglio capire perché questa cosa così semplice e così importante non passa per la vita di tutti i giorni. Chi fuma non può assolutamente realizzare se stesso, non può entrare dentro di sé, capire la vita degli altri, perché si pensa solo alla propria vita. Mi sono commossa quando, venendo qui, qualcuno mi ha visto in difficoltà e mi ha ceduto il posto; ma non ho sentito la brezza. Quindi ci sono persone più buone e più aperte di me, ma si sono rimesse a fumare; io devo allontanarmi perché soffoco. Grazie tante.
[I have been impressed a lot because You asked not to smoke. This opened me completely towards You. I have follwed all the experience but I have felt neither warm nor cool. Then I have noticed that almost eveyone has asked forgivenesss for having smoked, for having done so much bad, because there are many people who suffer for others’ smoking. Then I have seen the people rising their hands, and they had to be transformed; but then they smoked again in front of me. I want to understand why this thing so simple and so important, doesn’t pass for the daily life. Who smokes cannot absolutely realize himself, cannot go inside himself, undestand other people’s life, because he thinks only to his own life.
I have been moved when, arrived here, someone saw me in difficulty and left me his place; but I have not felt the breeze. So there are people better and nore open than me, but they started smoking again; I must keep far because I suffocate. Thanks very much.]
Shri Mataji: Hello. I didn’t say that you don’t smoke. I said you give up smoking. Once it happens, you give up. And then I said that you have to grow. If you grow in it, then you don’t smoke.

Romano Battaglia: Lei è andata a parlare a medici e scienziati russi, a scienziati e medici americani, un po’ in tutto il mondo, in Inghilterra… Che cosa pensano gli scienziati del Suo metodo?
[You have gone to talk to Russian doctors and scientists , to American scientists and doctors, a little bit all over the world, in England… What scientists think of Your method?]

Shri Mataji: Oh, their opinion is very good. And I told them, that we must understand the subtle side of our being. And they were very happy and they wanted to start Sahaja Yoga in NHS, what you call, in the National Health Service. And you’ll be amazed that Americans have sense of talent. And so many of them have given Me awards, and so many mayors came to My programmes. And they have really shown great respect for Me.
All false gurus have been there, but Americans never paid attention that way to them, except for stupid people who went. They even put My work on the record of the Congress. And also the – I don’t know-
Guido: “Berkeley University”
Shri Mataji: All universities, most of universities. So many universities have given Me a special award. I think they have a special sense for talent. If there is a good tennis player, they’ll have him. If they’ll have a musician, they’ll have him. Even Mr. Bush wants to meet Me. I’ve written a book, called ‘Meta Modern Era’, which he has read, and he writes to Me he wants to have something from Me also.
Surprisingly, their democracy is only two hundred year old, but they are very, I should say, deep in understanding. And education is of a very high criteria. And thus they’re, I think, they are open to understand everything that is good. I think their problems are not so difficult, because they are not at all fanatic. Very well educated, and know a lot about everything.

Shri Mataji: There’s one girl, there’s some sahaja yogini, she’s all the time asking something.

Another man: Vorrei chiedere un cenno sulla tecnica per far salire questa Kundalini. Capisco che è la meditazione; ma poiché vi sono meditazioni con visualizzazioni, meditazioni con i mantra, vorrei sapere come si realizza questa ascesa. Grazie. [I’d like to ask a hint about the technique to rise this Kundalini. I understand what is meditation; but since there are meditations with visualizations, meditations with mantras, I would like to know how this ascent is accomplished. Thanks.]
Guido : He would like to know more about the techniques, to know how to awaken this energy.
Shri Mataji: We have pamphlets and books, but sorry Sir, just now there isn’t so much time to explain. But we have a centre here.

[A young lady in Punjabi comes in front of Shri Mataji to give Her a paper.]
Shri Mataji: What’s the matter? What has happened?
[Romano is giving her his seat on the right hand side of Shri Mataji. Shri Mataji looks at the paper]
Guido; Just out of emotions.
Shri Mataji [laughting]: Is she Italian?
Young lady: Yes, I am from Passo Corese.
Guido: Near Rome.
Shri Mataji [laughting]: Alright.
[Gives her Her hand and kisses her].

Romano Battaglia: Accade molte volte che le persone piangano venendo a salutare la Grande Madre. È l’emozione di cui parlavo prima, quando, a Milano, Lei mi mise la mano sulla fronte. Ed io, che non piango mai, cominciai a piangere per un’ora. C’è qualcosa che veramente si risveglia, qualcosa che è più forte delle cose semplici della vita. Una curiosità: quale potere ha la Grande Madre sul tempo? Perché sono già tre volte che, quando viene, le previsioni sono di grandi piogge, poi non piove.
[It happens very often that people cries when they come and welcome the Great Mother. It’s the emotion I was telling before, when, in Milan, She put Her hand on my forehead. And I, that I never cry, started crying for one hour. There is something that really gets awakened, something that is stronger than simple things of life. A curiosity: which power has the Great Mother on the weather? Why is already three times that, when She comes, the forcasts are of heavy rain, but it does not rain?]
Shri Mataji: This is the power of love and compassion, nothing else, that touches your heart.
Shri Mataji: Alright?
Romano Battaglia: Quindi è evidente che, quando piove molto, di compassione ce n’è poca in giro, eh!
Guido: .. There is so much love.
[Laughter, Shri Mataji laughs].

Una domanda di grande serietà. Che poteri ha la Grande Madre di fronte ad un malato grave? [So it is evident that, when it rains a lot, there is little of compassion around, eh! A serious question: which powers has the Great Mother in presence of a seriously ill person? ]
Guido: He is asking about your powers, your curative powers, that you can cure people.
Shri Mataji: With love, you see, anything can be done.
It has to be pure love and then it just works.
Come along!
[A child of 5 years old goes onto the stage to kiss Shri Mataji.]
Romano Battaglia: Adesso non venite tutti a baciare Madre, se no diventa un problema di grande importanza [Now, do not all come to kiss Mother, otherwise it becomes a big problem!]
Guido: Don’t all come for a kiss…
[Shri Mataji laughs].

Shri Mataji: About you, Romano.
First time, when I went to Romano, in his office, he told Me: “First you give me my Self-realisation”. I said: “Alright. Bring some water”. And I put My hand in the water. And I said: “You drink it now”.
He said: “Mother, this tastes like wine!”.
I said: “This is what Christ did. It is not wine, it is like the grape juice. You cannot make alcohol spontaneously like that. Alcohol has to rot, rot, rot. And the more it rots, the better and more expensive.
So it happens just spontaneously. Even when He had gone for the wedding, it was just spontaneous. It was not alcohol, it was just grape juice. But still, you see, I don’t know why everybody believes that He made alcohol. How can He make alcohol, when alcohol goes against your awareness? This is a very wrong understanding about Christ.

Man: Chi è per Lei Cristo? Un profeta? Il figlio di Dio? Un uomo giusto? [Who is for You Christ? A prophet? God’s Son? A righeous man?]
Guido: Who is Jesus-Christ according to You ?
Shri Mataji: He’s God, He’s the son of God. No doubt.

Lady: We would like your opinion about Reiki, and if you please could explain us under which aspects they’re similar, or under which aspects Reiki and Sahaja Yoga are different.
Guido: She’s asking about this Reiki.
Shri Mataji: It’s no good. It doesn’t work out.

The man who spoke about Chinese Tao meridians: Relativamente all’energia che si sprigiona dalle mani, l’esperimento che ha fatto Lei a me è riuscito benissimo, ho percepito esattamente quello che Lei aveva detto che avremmo percepito. Io ho già esperienze da tantissimi anni di questo tipo, non nella dottrina che Lei professa, ma in dottrine similari. La domanda è: Lei ha parlato della manifestazione esterna dell’energia come una sorta di alito di vento fresco. Mentre noi conosciamo altre attività energetiche che si sprigionano dalle mani di persone buone, non perverse – quindi noi pensiamo che siano energie positive, non negative – però si tratta di calore. È questo il punto allora.
[Referring to the energy that come out of the hands, the experiment that You have done has come very well to me, I felt exactly what You said we should have felt. I have already had experiences of the kind since years, not in the same doctrine that You profess, but in simalar ones. The question is: You have talked about the esterior manifestation of this energy like a kind of cool breeze. While we know other energetic activities that come out of the hands of good people, not evil – so we think that they are positive, not negative – but they are warm. This is the point then.]
Guido: We know that there are some good people which are emitting warm vibrations. But we consider as a positive vibration.
Shri Mataji: What?
Guido: He says some people emit warm vibrations and we consider it as good vibrations.
Shri Mataji: Something wrong here, Sir. If they’re emitting hot vibrations, then there’s something wrong with that person. Maybe he’s a liver patient.
There are two sides: sympathetic nervous system, the right side is for doing work, for thinking and all that; and if it becomes heated up, then you can get hot.

Same man: Quello che è il sistema Yang estremorientale, quindi è iperattivo… Per capire: ci sarebbe quindi una prevalenza di azione Yin, della parte femminile, tenue, del sistema sottile dell’energia? [That is the Yang system, so it is overactive… Just to understand: there should be a prevalence of Yin action, form the feminine side, soft, of the subtle system of energy?]
Guido: No, è la prevalenza del centro, quindi un assoluto equilibrio fra destro e sinistro. [No, it is the prevalence of the centre, so an absolute balance between right and left.]
Same man: Grazie. [Thanks]
Guido: I said that here is a centre.
Shri Mataji: You see, in Sahaja Yoga Tao is made very clear, you’ll understand. Tao is not so clear, because one thing they don’t know how to get to that state. Sir, if you have some time, why don’t you come to Cabella? I will explain to you everything.
Same man: La ringrazio, sono molto onorato. [I thank you very much, I am honoured.]

[Romano Battaglia offers a bunch of yellow flowers.]
Shri Mataji: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Romano Battaglia: Un ultimo messaggio da dare a questo pubblico. [A last message for this audience.]
Guido: One last message.
Shri Mataji: Also, I would say, Alzheimer, if somebody has, you’ll get tremendous heat from that person on the right hand. But supposing he has cancer, then you’ll get it on the left hand, hot. You can become an expert. And unless and until you get your Self-realisation, you will not know also what your real value is. That’s why everybody has said: “Know Thyself”.
Thank you very much.

The bhajans group starts singing Jogawa. Shri Mataji meets the public