« Vous devez grandir rapidement », Brahmam Gardens Hotel, Brahmam Gardens, Londres (Angleterre), 3 Novembre 1981.
Une partie de ce texte est traduit. Voir ci-dessous en gras et italique.
Note à propos de cette conversation.
« Ce sont les premiers Français qui sont présents ce jour-là avec Shri Mataji dans son salon à Londres. Une poignée, autour de cinq ainsi que d’autres étrangers, des Anglais, en tout une vingtaine de personnes se sont retrouvés dans le salon de Shri Mataji. Marie, qui traduit, a été la première Française a être auprès de Shri Mataji à Paris, suite à sa Réalisation à Londres.
Annick et Marie sont arrivées au printemps de 1980. Il y avait déjà Jamel et Grégoire. Marie faisait partie des 7 premiers occidentaux à avoir reçu leur Réalisation de Shri Mataji en Angleterre, avec Pat Anslow notamment.
Robert est arrivé en septembre 1980. Quand Shri Mataji a estimé qu’ils étaient assez bien établis, elle leur a demandé d’aller afficher des posters dans Paris pour proposer une série de au 3 jours de programmes publics. Elle a demandé aux autres de rentrer dans leur pays respectif, disant qu’elle viendrait donner aussi des conférences. C’est ainsi que Marie est rentrée sur Paris dans l’appartement de sa maman. Suite à ces programmes, que Shri Mataji a donné à Paris en personne, un premier petit groupe de Sahaja Yogis s’est formé: il s’agit de Dominique, Alexandre, Laurent… A ces occasions, Shri Mataji se rendait dans le petit deux-pièces de Marie à Ledru Rollin et dormait avec elle dans son lit. C’était des débuts très familiaux où Shri Mataji était vraiment comme la mère de chacun. A cette époque, Shri Mataji faisait régulièrement à manger pour les Yogis. Ensuite, en 1981, d’autres Françaises sont arrivées, comme Guillemette, et la maison de l’une d’elle, au Raincy (près de Montfermeil), a été prêté au groupe par son père et a servi de lieu de rencontre pendant les sept années suivantes. »
Témoignage de Dominique
You see, certain things that day, [like] how to meditate. You see, that is important. How to meditate. And that day I…did you hear my tape about it? How to meditate?
Marie: I have not translated it to them yet, but I have the tape
Shri Mataji: Is it hard to translate it?
Marie: No, it’s not particularly hard it’s just that with the videos you can’t just stop it.
Shri Mataji: But you took the tapes with you?
Marie: Yes Mother.
Shri Mataji: So you tell them how to meditate it’s important and to quieten yourself within you. That is very important, is to first of all quieten yourself, your thoughts.
So how, through breathing, a Sahaja Yogi can stop his thoughts: through controlling the breathing.
Now the thing is one has to know that now you are realised-souls. This is the thing one has to actually believe into. And if you are that, then there are many things which must change. And the one thing we have to believe with full confidence is that we are now transformed.
Now translate it to them.
Now if you become aware of it, then you will know that you have got power to transform yourself as well as transform others. So you must have faith. Now faith doesn’t mean blind faith, but faith based on your own experience.
Now, once you realise that whatever you want or think you can do, that your relationship with the Divine is not imaginary any more, but is actual, and that [the] Divine is dynamic, It understands and It acts, [then] it is much easier to change.
Now, this faith is not yet established in many Sahaja Yogis in the West. If this faith could be established by even logical conclusions, then you can start experimenting with yourself, and you will be amazed how much powers you have got. It’s a vicious circle: if you do not practise what you have got, you lose it and you become diffident and you then don’t practise and then you become more diffident, then you become just like any other ordinary human being.
So one should know [that] you have powers that every negative should be afraid of you. Even your presence can frighten them because Spirit is insurmountable. That is one thing that people do not know that you cannot be overcome, because it has its own freedom of its own.
If this faith becomes absolutely one with your being you just become compassion, then you know how to love others, and respect others, and respect the human dignity; but this happens at a later state, at a higher stage, more [so] in the western society.
Marie: More in the Western?
Shri Mataji: Yes, this happens really very rarely in the Western society. You see first they want to know how much they can aggress others, or how many people they can impress others, or how much they can gain themselves. But one should know that it is a power that is compassion, that is love, that is forgiveness and that is what one should achieve: how many people you can love and how many people you can bring together, how many things you can give away, how many things you can throw away, how much you have got rid of your fixations and your self-consciousness, how much you can get rid of your self-consciousness. All this vanity just drops out, should drop out. Because vanity is the biggest barrier.
And you yourself become your own reflection, your own reflector, and you can see clearly what you are in Sahaj Yoga and what you were and what you have to be. And then you can ascend with the help of your love for your Mother. And it happens that you can go very fast.
And one thing you must remember [is] that you are made into a lamp. So you don’t have to any more seek, just grow your light to give to others. So in one way you increase your light so that you help yourself, and just to help others. Your growth has no meaning if it cannot help others.
Now for example, if you put the fire on, the fire does not burn itself, it burns others; also the fire gives light. Now you are the fire, you are the light and you are the controller of fire or the light. You are the one who can become: if you want to be the fire or the light. You have power to become whatever you like. When it is necessary to be fire you have to be fire. When you have to become the light you have to become the light. But it’s better to try to become light first than become fire.
Even the fire that burns is of no use, no one likes it. But if you can become the fire that cooks and nourishes others, digests the food – in the sense that it helps to cook and make the food so must that it become digestible, if you become that good then it is definitely useful.
But the fire that burns you have been: that you must give up. You must become the fire that cooks, because you are changed and in that change you have achieved the power to use this fire for cooking food for others.
Everything that you had so far was used for a wrong purpose, for the destructive side, for the negative. Now the same thing, after enlightenment, is for the betterment, for the well-being, for the sweet feelings, nourishing support of others, because it is enlightenment. Like the light illumines the road and darkness is dispelled, you are no more confused: you know where exactly you have to go, you get discrete. Discretion becomes part and parcel of your being. So enlightenment gives you an absolute discretion.
Now, for example, appreciation of art: you start appreciating any art which gives you vibrations. Now in the West the appreciation of art comes that you see a big space is left and a little [paint] somewhere. They cannot understand and appreciate the exuberance of joy, of the common folk-people. Everything has to be such that one can write a book on that. Everything that creates thought.
On the contrary art is such it should stop your thought. So this is what one should understand that when you have certain ideas about art, they come also from your own fixations or your own education. The education, most of it, is ego-pampering which comes from many ego-maniacs: they say, “This is right.” They say “This is right ,this is good!’ But they do not teach you how to enjoy, spontaneously, anything. So the spontaneous appreciation of something, in art, is not what you certify with your ego – or some people think they have a power by which they can certify – but is the sensitivity that makes you enjoy the creation of that art.
Now, for example, in the West I feel [that] they like most of the art which is really like beggars art, I would say. For example, I went to buy the tiles and the most expensive were just like beggar’s ties: Worn out, colourless, insipid. And that they said, “Is the most elite!” The trouble is their ego makes them so conscious that they want to hide their ego, so they feel shy to express their exuberance or their thankfulness to God. Because if you say you are happy, then you have to thank God for that and they do not want to thank God, so they want to live like miserable beggars, just to overcome their ego.
The sign of health is exuberance. Then in art they start showing gutters and dirty, filthy things absolutely filth! I mean any saintly person would vomit. So they show, if not of beggary, they show the filth and the dirt. If you go to hell, you will get all this there, directly – all this.
I mean you can live in the sewers or in the gutter there. It’s just the same like the worms in the gutter. Sometimes I feel they are practising for if they have to hell, how to be insensitive, because they will have to face this filth there. And that is why one has to cut off these things.
It’s like somebody eating the filth and saying, « What’s wrong? » But if you ask, « Why do you do it? » So he can say, “Of course I am going to hell, so I must practice. I may have to eat it all my life.” So such a negative person if you ask, « Why you want to go to hell? » He says « That’s the only solution for me, I am waiting for it! »
So, gradually, they are becoming, not only animals, but some queer worms – those who have lost the sensitivity against sin. And then, when they will go to hell, they will say, “Why should we go to hell? »
But there is no compromise: I must tell you very frankly. There is no compromise, no grace there, no compassion, but very hard judgement. So we should prepare ourselves in such a way that we should enter into the Kingdom of Heaven and should not be unsettled. We should try to become the will of God and not our own will, then the joy will be complete. Otherwise it’s an incomplete joy in life, it’s just like playing games. But that time we cannot play games, when we are judged.
Not only but you have to get your positions as Sahaja Yogis in the Kingdom of God, but you have to become the instruments, the great instruments of God. So you are not entering into the Kingdom of God to be some backbenchers or sitting in the corner somewhere, but you have to take positions and you have to do it quick. If you still have desires: « I want this,” “I want that, » and you weep for that, it won’t work out. And if you have still fears, still it will bring you down.
You must change your facing. Now you are facing the public. First you were a part of the public, now you are facing the public. So you have to change your image, outside and inside, otherwise you are neither here nor there. This is the problem with Sahaj Yogis: that they do not understand that there is no way you can return back to a position where you can say that, “I am not realised.” But now you are realised and you will have no excuse. You must grow. You must become what you have been given. Otherwise you will be thrown away, just like rejected china (crockery) as you have; and cannot be sold any more.
So in Sahaja Yoga there is a tremendous happening that is taking place, as if I have put you in the furnace and I am working out everything that is possible under the sun. And you should come out in really flying colours.
But if you do not accept your position, you may fail. It is your freedom which is also enlightened and you can go faster to hell than you could go before, so it is essential that you calm down and be peaceful and take your position. Those who are frightened, who are diffident, must change. Those who are aggressive, hot tempered must change. Ego oriented must change. Superego oriented must change. Come in the centre, not go from one extreme to another extreme. You have to become a universal personality.
Like I was getting very good tiles for the same price as marble. Maybe the marble may not be such an expensive marble. but the tile and the marble had the same price. So if I buy the tile, some may like, the value of tile maybe liked by, say, French. I mean some French! Because they never agree! They must find out faults. But still if there are about ten French (laughing), two or three may like a particular tile. But marble everybody will like, because it is marble. They will not see the value, but they say, “It is marble!” What is the difference? One is spontaneous from God. Whether it is the same value or not, this is all human beings. Anybody who wants to see will not see the value, but will see it is marble. So whatever is spontaneous, which is natural from God, it has its own intrinsic value. It does not change with different countries, different whims or different periods of time: it is eternal.
So if you do something spontaneous, it may not be appreciated to today, because artists were never appreciated when they lived. But when they died they were appreciated, after many years. Same about the saints.
But now you have so many saints in this world that they can appreciate saints. But are we appreciating each other? Are we understanding that we are all saints, [that] nobody is higher or lower? If the saints cannot appreciates saints, then who else is going to appreciate them?
Because you are saints, you are a creation of spontaneity of your Mother: every one is a piece of art, is so beautiful. We do not actually appreciate ourselves to begin with. We only appreciate a few people, « I like this and I don’t like that. » But every piece is a source of joy.
If you start appreciating each other then I have some hopes that the spontaneity is being appreciated, that human beings have become eternal beings, they have sensitivity for eternal things and not for temporary things. Like the marble has an eternal value, the Spirit has the eternal value. But you should be able to feel that eternity, enjoy that eternity. This is what it is: we are in the eternal life, we have entered into the eternal life, and only the things that are spontaneous have eternal life, everything else perishes.
If you deal with anything with temporary scales, you are not yet a Sahaj Yogi – no doubt about it. So one has to develop that sensitivity. That doesn’t come from your rationality and your so-called education and so-called reasoning, but only through surrendering: through surrendering to spontaneity.
I hope people will break their barriers of ego in the West and enjoy the eternity. Once you start doing that you will get more and more Sahaj Yogis. Because those who are coming are not so sensitive and the ones who are there in charge are also not so sensitive. So every wave that comes in returns back. It doesn’t absorb or it is not absorbed. That is how in Sahaja Yoga one has to grow very fast if you have to attract other people. Because spontaneity is the only thing that is the capital we have got. We have no other capital to catch, only this spontaneous love. Other fake people have got money and other superficial things to attract. We have only this. This has to grow.
May God bless you all.
Now if you have any question, you can ask me.
Question: Mother, William wanted to know what the characteristics of Leo are?
Shri Mataji: Leo? Oh it’s wonderful! Leo is a very generous man. He has a heart of lion. It can face difficulties and can be very dignified. You see a lion or a tiger, both are kings of the forest. And in the area where lions live, tigers can’t live. I mean climatically, because tigers like colder areas and the lions like the hot areas.
So both have the same characteristics of a king. First of all they will eat when they have to eat, they do not eat like beggars, all the time, being afraid whether they will get it tomorrow or not. Like a beggar will gobble everything you see whenever he gets a chance, because he is not sure about the future. And they will kill the animal, particular animals only, which they have to overpower. For a lion will not eat a rabbit, never. But only the one that he can overpower, for which he has to struggle, which has to earn. And the killed he will eat with dignity. And he is very frugal in his eating and leaves most of the kill for others, to enjoy. And it will leave that spot and go away, and [so] he makes others quite fearless, so that they should not feel embarrassed how to eat in the presence of the king. They are very wonderful animals, both of them. And when a tiger or a lion dies in a forest, everyone weeps. It becomes a silent place, because their king has died. They want that he must eat also and they don’t mind if a tiger kills an animal. And he is very fatherly and as such he is a very good husband. He is not indignified in married life also. He is not like a stupid dog, runs after every bitch. He lives with lioness only. They are very dignified couple and they know the value of their own children and they bring them up as lions.
But the lion, as a human being, could be dangerous also, if he doesn’t allow his qualities of lion [to be] humanised. Because a lion has long nails, so for human being where he could be little abrupt, that he may do something that may disturb people or he may hurt without his knowledge and he may also assert pressure, put a pressure, or create jealousies.
So one has to be careful because of his propensity and it’s personality. It should not make others dwarfs and frightened.
In the nature animals are spontaneous. A lion behave like a lion. He can’t behave like a scorpion or like a snake. But a human beings can be everything.
So if you go to the spontaneity of your own character, then you can develop a personality which is supporting your growth. But if you get enveloped or pulled down or you can say engulfed by your own sign, then you cannot become a Sahaja Yogi. Because after realisation you are becoming universal and none of your signs really hold you back, but give you a special colour in the cosmos. And it should never create any discord. It should give you concord, then it is good. The signs drop out, because Spirit is not bound by any signs. No stars, nothing, can bound it. So it maybe a person who is a Leo may not progress so much as a person who I, say, a Gemini. It depends on your own desire to be the Spirit.
It’s like Kartikeya and Ganesha having a bet from their Mother saying that She’ll give a price to the person who is going around the Mother Earth. So who goes around the Mother Earth first. Now Kartikeya has a vahana which is, you know, a very fast moving bird, that is peacock, who can fly, while poor Ganesha has only the little mouse. So Ganesha is the one who catches the principle and he says that, « Nobody is greater than my Mother!! So if I go around my mother only, three times, I’ll beat everyone hollow! » So he went around his Mother only, and while Kartikeya was flying. And when he came back, he found already Ganesha has got the present!
So when you become the essence, you become the Reality and then all unreal things like your signs, everything drops out.
Say, a flower becomes the fragrance, then fragrance is what flower is. But you don’t see the flower any more, you just feel the fragrance. So you have to go to the essence of everything. That is what people don’t understand. It’s called as tattwa: the principle.
If you become the principle then nothing is as important. Whatever may be your sign. I have seen people with very good sign just go down like that. I have known of some Leos who were very ego oriented, some Aries who were very good at organising and they just went straight down. And some simple people who were not very much great according to their horoscopes have become very great Sahaja Yogis. So don’t depend on your signs so much: you can get a ego orientation or depression and both are against Sahaja Yoga. All right?
What other questions?
Question: What do you think about dogs?
Marie: She has a big dog at home!
Shri Mataji: Good, good. Dog is very good. Dog is a disciple and he knows his guru. He knows every bit of his guru. All the deities inside the guru, every mood, everything, and by that knowledge it gains. It knows what pleases the guru, and as soon as the guru comes home, he will express all his joy. He will give up everything and run to receive him – expressing the joy. So many things one has to learn from a dog. They are wonderful things, they are beautiful. You better keep the dog!
I had a dog too. It’s with my daughter now. When I go to India and when I go to my daughter’s place, I wear a very ordinary sari, because I know as soon as he hears my voice, he’ll come jumping and jump all over me, lick me and also show his anger because I have left him, and eyes will have tears, even he may tear my sari out of anger. And when I am coming and filling my bag with things, it knows [that I am leaving]. Then it goes and sits and sulks and doesn’t eat food for eight days when I leave. I mean I go every second year but he’s not forgotten even my voice. It’s an old dog now, very old. I think for his species he’s outlived. . His name is Deepak – means the light. He’s absolutely white, it’s the Spitz style, you know, from Germany – that kind. But it’s a Japanese dog. But it is big for its own breed, And there are some photographs I think, somewhere.
But dogs have a capacity to love. I had taught this dog how to do puja, and he use to touch my feet, and he would never lick my feet. He would lick my sari but never my feet. And he knew how to use a WC, can you believe it? All sorts of things he knew. You can teach him so many things. It is used to discriminate even the footsteps of every person in the house. And he never liked nudity of any kind. One Yugoslav lady came with a short, not very short with a frock and the legs showing and he started barking at her, and she couldn’t like that, so I have to give a towel to cover her legs, while she was talking to me. (laughing)
And also some of the villagers in India, wear those dotis, and if they show their knees, he can’t bear it! You must cover below your knees for him. If he had come to France, I am sure he would have gone mad! (laughter) Even in a painting if he saw the legs or the arms open, he would bark to the painting. And he could not bear sleeveless [dresses] or these translucent dresses people wear. And he was Japanese actually, but he was very particular and very kind to children.
So many things they have. In India they say they have eighteen paws or something – it’s the number of paws — then he is a saint.
Marie: Eighteen what?
Shri Mataji: You see, they have paws, so they have five and something more extra they have. Like they have sixteen normally, or something. I don’t know exactly. How many paws they have altogether? Here also they have three. You find out. You see they have three additional, so five and three is eight. So it is sixteen, but if they have eighteen then they are saints or something. Eighteen nails then they are saints or something like that is there. It’s some sort of a myth. But my dog has the vibrations and he had such a sense of respect and protocol. And he himself, if anything is given to him with love he would eat otherwise he would not: he would starve himself. He’s the conveyance of guru tattwa, the principle of the guru, the master. So the disciples are the conveyance of the guru. You have to be able to to bear my power and transmit them, otherwise my powers are useless.
Shri Mataji: Alors, d’autres questions?
Dominique: Comment développer la confiance en soi sans développer l’ego.
Shri Mataji: Qu’a-t-il dit?
Maire: Il aimerait savoir comment développer la confiance en soi sans développer l’ego.
Shri Mataji: Vous voyez, avec Sahaja Yoga, vous ne rationalisez pas les choses et vous ne réfléchissez pas à elles, mais vous les faites advenir. Et le travail est si simple que les gens ne s’y mettent pas vraiment….
Like yesterday I received a letter, yesterday only I received a letter, from Australia that two people felt that they were getting heart attack, so they didn’t know what to do. So they put my shoes on top of their heads. And they got all right. It’s a fact.!
Donc, pour Sahaja Yoga, quoi que l’on ait à faire, ce ne doit pas être fait mentalement, c’est une chose que les gens ne comprennent pas. Nous faisons tout mentalement. Mais ce que vous devez faire, c’est prendre vos vibrations avec la photo. Peut-être que vous pensez être différent, ce n’est peut-être pas le cas. Vous penser peut-être avoir de l’ego, ce n’est peut-être pas le cas.
Alors maintenant, vous prenez vous-même vos vibrations avec la photo. Vos jugements mentaux sur vous-mêmes, oubliez-les. Oubliez le mental. Maintenant, mettez votre main gauche vers la photo: voyez s’il y a des vibrations. Ensuite, mettez votre main droite vers la photo: voyez si des vibrations arrivent.
Alors, si les vibrations sont les mêmes dans les deux mains, vous êtes au centre (à l’équilibre). S’il y a une disparité alors ajustez-la, en donnant simplement un « bandhan ». Comme si votre corps, vous-même étiez devenus un outil entre vos mains, comme si tout était inanimé et que vous étiez le maître vivant et que vous saviez comment visser et quoi visser, quelle vis tourner. Par toutes ces méthodes, par « Nirmala Vidya » (connaissance sahaj), vous devenez l’Esprit, et alors vous n’avez pas de pensée.
Toutes ces « vidyas » (connaissances) peuvent sembler très stupides parfois, comme ça. Un Sahaja Yogi rit, Shri Mataji aussi.
Mais ça aide, ça marche vraiment, ça fonctionne absolument. Et pour cette raison, vous devez devenir des experts en « Nirmala Vidya ». Alors, vous ne devenez pas des egos ou des superegos, vous devenez l’Esprit. D’accord?
C’est la science, c’est la science des lois divines. C’est la science des lois divines parce que la réalité, cette réalité vivante est votre pouvoir. Et l’ego et le surperego sont tous des mythes, des choses inanimées! Donc, vous savez comment gérer les choses (avec les vibrations).
You become separated from yourself and you know how to, “All right , come along it’s ego all right go down, now you come…now do it.” Like that put it right. It’s like that.
Like she’s catching on the Right Vishuddhi, so she’s just putting her hand there and putting it right! You don’t feel condemned about it. All right?
It’s all made easy and simple. But it’s rather difficult very sophisticated intelligent man to become that simple. Actually children are very simple. My granddaughter she was hardly two years [old] and when we went to the airport she was very busy like — this like this like this — and she was doing it (bandhan) very fast, so my daughter asked her, “What are you doing?” So she said, “I am tying up this airport!” She is always busy, and as a child of three years she used to draw the all of Bombay with one pencil in her hand – really! So my daughter said that, “How can you do it with one line?” Then she said, “Only one line passes through all of them!“ [That’s] the essence, you see. She was hardly three years [old]. Look at this Aniky, little Aniky: she is at my feet as if children are near the chocolate. Look at Olympia: she’ all the time wants to be with me and eat chana because she has a little liver problem. And all the children want to be there to wash my feet: and then they take out your Agnya problems. Everybody’s Agnya problems Aniky was taking. To them it’s all a play, it’s a play. Nirmala Vidya is a play for them because they are Spirits. There’s nothing so serious.
French are unnecessarily so serious. What have they achieved out of their seriousness? Gutters. The filth. Horrid! There’s nothing to be serious about. But out of the mud only the lotus is born. The mud is complete there. That’s how this lotus has to come. And Sahaja Yogis in France are going to be like lotuses. They will make the whole place fragrant. I am sure of that. [It’s] very important, because that’s the hell, I sometimes feel. You all have a double responsibility. But such a beautiful city, such a beautiful country. God has given you everything so beautiful. I don’t know how human beings can make a mess out of everything: like bacteria, they can spoil everything. It’s like a fermented grape juice.
What’s another question?
And do you get lotus in France?
Marie: We have things that resemble lotus.
Shri Mataji: What do you call them? Waterlilies?
You must try. You might get lotus. Bring some lotuses from India, some seeds. It’s not difficult to grow them. They can grow in very cold weather. Because there is a lake called Manasarovar which is at very high altitude where you get swans, beautiful swans, and lotuses. It may grow. All right?
So you have a double responsibility.
Shri Mataji: How are you, Hari Jairam?
Hari Jairam: Very well, Mother
Shri Mataji: What did you do there?
Hari Jairam: Well we stayed … Warren and I was there for the last week, and we had a few programs. After Warren stayed at the hotel, same hotel that you were in, and then he came and he stayed with Dr. Worlikar.
He stayed there for two days. And then we had two meetings there – one on a Thursday and one on Sunday.
Shri Mataji: All right.
Hari Jairam: And mainly Indians, the Indians came, all of them. And Warren made a tape for them.
Shri Mataji: Eh?
Hari Jairam: Warren, he made a tape for them. He described all about the chakras and how to raise the Kundalini, and the doctor wanted to know about the medical side of it. So he explained everything on the tape. And they have decided to have regular meetings on Thursdays at his home. Plus, the only two Americans interested were Michael, Michael and Roger.
Shri Mataji: And in Santa Cruz?
Hari Jairam: Yeah, well, in Santa Cruz the Indian man, Ravi, and his American wife ….
Shri Mataji: Indian man?
Hari Jairam: Indian man, Ravi, and his wife was white. She was Danish. We had a meeting there on Thursday. But we tried to get a hall. But he couldn’t organise a hall. So I phoned the old gentleman, the old gentleman who spoke with a hoarse voice and we could not get a … he said that before that to get a meeting in a savings place. But we tried there but we couldn’t get one. So the only place we had the meeting was at the Sikh’s place, Mr. Singh’s place. You know there was a Sikh gentleman ..
Shri Mataji: You are saying about what?
Hari Jairam: Santa Cruz
Shri Mataji: No, that Sikh doesn’t stay in Santa Cruz.
Hari Jairam: Yeah, but seeing that we couldn’t get the place in Santa Monica …
Shri Mataji: So you went to Santa Cruz.
Hari Jairam: Yes. No, we went to the Sikh’s place. He lived in …
Shri Mataji: Santa Monica, you are telling.
Hari Jairam: Yeah. Well, we could not get the place in Santa Monica, so the Sikh said we could use his hotel and we had a meeting there and about ten other persons turned up and they were interested.
Shri Mataji: Good. Out of ten, how many were Indians?
Hari Jairam: Well, at that meeting there were about two couples.
Shri Mataji: Indians?
Hari Jairam: Yes.
Shri Mataji: So the rest of them were six Americans only.
Hari Jairam: Yes.
Shri Mataji: How were they?
Hari Jairam: Well, they weren’t very good because they went to a lot of gurus.
Shri Mataji: Ah?
Hari Jairam: There was one gentleman, the man who had the cirrhosis, he was very keen. And Michael and Roger.
Shri Mataji: I think there it will work out – Santa Monica. Other, because you had not place, nothing, all problems, you see?
Hari Jairam: Yes.
Shri Mataji: So Michael is going to work it out?
Hari Jairam: Well, Michael said that he couldn’t get the place to stay and he got very angry, and he said that it was Warren’s fault that he left Santa Cruz. Because he had problems with his mum. He went there to stay.
Shri Mataji: Ah?
Hari Jairam: He went to stay with his mother.
Shri Mataji: Who?
Hari Jairam: Michael, when he came back from Santa Cruz he went to stay with his mother.
Shri Mataji: Michael is the one who was with…
Hari Jairam: Yeah, the one who came to Santa Cruz, on his own and then drove with you to San Francisco.
Shri Mataji: Um.
Hari Jairam: Well, he returned and he stayed one night with his mother, and then his mother told him that he has to leave. So he could not get anywhere to stay. So he went to stay with another American, and the other American told him that he couldn’t stay there, too. So when I phoned him he was very angry and he said it’s all Warren’s fault that, that he told you,. So he’s going back to Santa Cruz. So he has gone back to Santa Cruz.
Shri Mataji: Such people! They have no money, they have this, they are…It’s all right. So, Santa Monica, who’s going to do that?
Hari Jairam: Well, nobody any more. Because on Thursday we had the meeting at the Indian’s place and he was not going to …
Shri Mataji: but what is happening to this, ah, she is going to stay in Santa Cruz? Tracy?
Hari Jairam: Well, I haven’t heard from her, Mother, since she left with you.
Shri Mataji: So, Santa Cruz she might be having. Santa Cruz they are having. So Santa Monica is finished like this?
Hari Jairam: Well, except the Indian man there with the white wife. He’ll probably start meetings. But he was saying he cannot allow Americans to go to his home, because he wasn’t sure what sort of people they are and they might come to his house and see things, and when he’s not there they can come and trouble his wife.
Shri Mataji: Bharkar.
Hari Jairam: Yeah, Bharkar. And then he said that for the Indians, the people that he knows, they can have regular meetings. But unless he knows the are Americans, they can’t come to his home.
Shri Mataji: You see, all hippies. Horrible! And they go to the houses and they eat like gluttons and they take away things. It’s true what he says. Look at this Michael. Now, why should he blame anyone if there’s no room or something? I mean, Sahaja Yoga is not supposed to give you places. What he said is true, also. So then why doesn’t he arrange, Bharkar, some general public place?
Hari Jairam: Yeah. He was talking about having a temple – the place where the Indians, you know, the Indians who are living there they have a meeting hall. So, Mr. Pradhan, Subhash Pradhan, he said that they will try to organise a meeting.
Shri Mataji: But then they won’t allow Americans to go there?
Hari Jairam: Yes, it’s a open hall. You see, it’s a temple in the main building where they have their meetings, and they have small rooms on the side. So they can hire the small rooms.
Shri Mataji: Then that’s all right. In a meeting in Santa Cruz, there were four hundred and fifty hippies facing me and the Indians who were with me got frightened. They are very ego-oriented. And ultimately one of them hit Gregoire.
So either they are very over formal people, Americans are: they’ll wear their dark suits, hundreds of darks suits, you see, yards of them, or they will be absolutely like this. Very dangerous. Very violent.
So he said he’d manage something, Bharkar?
Hari Jairam: Yes, but he said it depends upon the other Indians.
Shri Mataji: Uh?
Hari Jairam: It depends upon the other Indians. It all depends on Dr. Worlikar now.
Shri Mataji: Doctor?
Hari Jairam: Worlikar, the immunology man. It all depends on him.
Shri Mataji: So you write to Dr. Bharkar that Mother was asking about it, to take the help of Dr. Worlikar, because he works in Santa Monica. And he has got the addresses, has he?
Hari Jairam: Yes. Well, I left the addresses before. I kept the addresses and I phoned to all the people.
Shri Mataji: But where are the addresses now?
Hari Jairam: Well, I have a photostat copy with me here in London and I left the original with Mr. Singh.
Shri Mataji: So write to Mr. Singh and to Mr. Worlikar, Dr. Worlikar, and to Bharkar, that they should try to arrange something now. They can have a programme at Singh’s place. He won’t mind, it’s over there.
Hari Jairam: Yes. There was one problem because he lives in the black area where they have lots of muggings. The dangerous area.
(end of recording)