Sat Chit Anand

New Delhi (भारत)

Sat Chit Anand, Advice given on 15th February 1977 at New Delhi,  in English.

Today I’m going to tell you, yesterday I told you, what are the mental stratas or what is the totality of man. Whatever I have told you about it, about the totality of man, all his four sides, is: on top is the the super-consciousness, on the right-hand side is the supra-conscious state, and this side is the sub-conscious state, and down below is the hell. You can see that after Realisation, not before. Before it, if I tell you that this man is not correct, that man is correct, you are not going to like it. You will think that I am criticising someone. Why should I criticise? One person I say he’s good, another person is not good.

Later on, once you are Realised and you have gone deep into it, then you become so sensitive that even the name of such a person gives you a heat in the hand, you start burning, you don’t like it. So this strata of super-consciousness, I told you, I will be discussing today. Because yesterday we discussed it too.

Now you might say that, “We must do even the collective subconscious and also this collective supra-conscious, we should try to do everything.” But you are sidetracked. Not only [that] but you are affected, you are hurt. But the worst part of the whole thing is that after human state, if you go to any one of these stratas, you go to the pishacha state. On the left-hand side you become a pishacha, and on the right-hand side you become a rakshasa.

Even after Realisation a person like Ravana became a rakshasa. He was a Realised-soul. He was a Brahmin, no doubt, he was. But even after that, you see, he had such a weakness for women. When he tried to do that, again he fell down, he became a rakshasa. The trouble is, after this state, you become either a superman, or a what you call the devata or, you can say, the Realised-soul, or you become a rakshasa. So you have to choose.

Now human state is such a state that either you go this way, that way, or you go to hell. And when you go to the extremes you come down to hell.

Supposing you have been to somebody who has been a tantrika – take the case of a tantrika – he has been trying all these things and all that – unknowing. Also he does not know he’s a tantrika. Supposing you have been to him. [When] you come to me, immediately we find out that there has been a problem with you. If you go to a Realised-soul, immediately I will know that he has been. Today one gentlemen came to me. I asked him, “Who is your Guru?” And he told me his name. He’s a Realised-soul, I know. In Kanchi, the Shankaracharya of Kanchi, the old one. He’s a Realised-soul. Not the new one. The new one is not. None of them are, except for one, the Kanchi one. When he told me I said, “You will get your Realisation, no problem!” Because if he’s a Realised-soul, they will have no complications. He got his Realisation, he was alright in no time. So no question. But if you go to somebody else who is a tantrika, bend your head before that, you can’t get your Realisation.

Now, there is nothing to criticise. Why should I? I mean, I am not a politician. I don’t want anything. I don’t want any money. Nothing. I don’t have to know even about Kundalini. I know each and every thing about it! Absolutely complete! I don’t have to have anything from you. Then why should I say that this man is not alright? Because I can, even a child can, say it. If a child is Realised he will say it. My granddaughter she went in Ladakh to see some lama. She went to Ladakh and saw the lamas place. These lamas are, none of them are Realised. Surprisingly none of them are Realised! It’s a fact. I am telling you. If they were Realised I would have said, “They are Realised,” but if they are not I will say, “They are not.” Pope is not a Realised person. This is not politics. This is Absolute Truth. So this little girl – she was hardly that time three or four years of age – so she looked at him and said, “Yeh, kya sar munay ke chauga pinaa ke, aise ban ki waite hai. Karam kaige.(21:51)” Immediately she said it because she could feel it. She’s a child!

We had once a program, and another granddaughter of mine she had come, and a big ‘sadhu baba’ in Bombay. I will not name him, because you all know him. He is not a Guruji but he’s running a big mission there. He was sitting on the dais (stage) and this my granddaughter was sitting with someone in front – she’s a small girl, very small; now she’s hardly five-and-a-half; that time she might be about four-and-a-half or so. She saw from there this gentlemen sitting there. They had called me as a chief guest and he was the Chairman or something like that. So she saw from there. She said, “Nanny, nanny yeh jo maxi-panti baitha, is ko baga bahar to sab garam garam aar raha hai. Waha se chill aa rahe!” It was so embarrassing


He’s telling you the Truth; why do you call him obstinate? He’s a very brilliant boy, very brilliant. (Hindi) He’s so particular and one day he was saying that, “ (Hindi).” Just he can’t bear it. One father came to see my brother, and my brother was about to touch his fee. He said, “If you would have touched his feet otherwise I would have hit the father very nicely. Why should you touch his feet?”

So, you see, the thing is, this is the Absolute Knowledge. It is the Knowledge by which you know what is the Truth, what is not the Truth.

Seeker: We people, having limited consciousness, anybody talks about wisdom…

Shri Mataji: I know. That is the reason why I am so sorry. You see, why my attitude is very different from these Guru is, I don’t say that you spoil yourself, “Go to this one, go to this one. Alright, die there!” You see, I don’t say like that. I am looking after you because I know you are seekers. And I feel sorry because the seekers have suffered. I feel very sorry.

Now the hippies abroad – you see my centre is just in the centre of the hippie village. Why? Because I know they are the seekers. Poor things, they are suffering because they are the seekers. All my sympathies, all my heart goes to them because they are the seekers. You know how much I am working with you. You know that very well. Because I realise that you are a seeker and in your ignorance you have gone to these people.

Now you can say that, “Why didn’t God give us this sensitivity?” God had. God had given you. Human beings, you were very sensitive at the time of Sitaji. At the time of Radhaji also they were very sensitive. But now man, in his freedom, has become so materialistic. What impresses is a good dress, good features, big car, somebody coming in a big car – “Oh big thing!” We are becoming, day-by-day, very gross. This is the reason. And this grossness has grown into us. That’s why you do not feel it.

But there are many people, I tell you, who could not bear J. Krishnamurti. They said, “Oh he’s singing! What are we to get from him?” It’s a simple [thing] you see. Use your brains. Either use your sensitivity of your heart or use your brains. God has given you brains. If you read J.Krishnamurti you’ll know [whether] he’s seeking. It’s very easy to find out the one who is seeking and the one who is not seeking.

Yesterday that singer was singing all the viraha ke songs (songs of longing/separation). Then he got Realised and I said, “Now don’t sing viraha. Now you’ve got it.” But still [if] he goes on [with] viraha, so God will say, “Alright, let him not have his vibrations.” So you lose his vibrations. In small things I have seen [that] people lose their vibrations. Such a precious thing has been brought down to them, and for a small thing they lose it. There was a man who got Realisation and he went somewhere, Kashi or some place. From there he bought some black thread and he was wearing it. Now see the human mind, you say that we are, but this is stupidity. There, he gave that black thread to him. Now what is a black thread? You tell me what is the worth of a black thread? He lost his vibrations. When he came to me I said, “My son, throw away this black thread.” He cannot throw. He said, “No, no, no, no. I cannot throw black thread.” I said, “Now what to do?” I said, “Who has given you this black thread? Use your brains.” I spent one hour discussing with him, then he threw the black thread. I said, “This man has taken, for this one small, little thing, five rupees from you. You must know this man is making money. His bad vibrations hang out. And why are you attached to it? Now do you know why he’s attached? Because he’s possessed by that. What is there in a black thread? You tell me. And he’s an educated man! He’s not a foolish man. That thread he could not throw.

You see you are attached to these small, small things of life and not to the eternal things. That’s why, that’s why you lose it. I don’t ask you to sacrifice anything, I don’t even ask you to throw away anything. I don’t say that you give up anything. There are people who smoke, drink. I don’t even say [about] that, because I know – even if I say that, they will run away. I know that. Human beings are like that. I please you. I plead. I chastise. I chide you. I do everything. But you must know one thing, that I want that you should stick onto Reality. I will not allow you to have falsehood within you. There are methods that a Mother employs.

There was a great smoker who came to me and he told me, “I cannot give up smoking that’s why I can’t come to Sahaja yoga.”

I said, “No, no, you don’t give up smoking! You can come to me. There’s no need for you to give up Sahaja Yoga.” He came, and you know what happened, a lot of smoke started coming from his nose and mouth and things. He started getting the fragrance of udbatti (incense). He said, “What’s this happening?” I said, “All your smoke is coming back!” Now whenever he smoked he used to get that fragrance of udbatti [so] he gave up! I play some tricks also to help you. But it’s for your good only. If it is for your hita, for your kalyana, you should not mind.

There was a question: people said that, “It is said that: ‘Say the Truth and also it should pleasing – priyam’. How can you say satya (truth) and priyam (pleasing) together?” Because if you say some satya people don’t like it. It is not priyakar. Because supposing I say, “You give up this habit of yours!” Then you don’t like it. But that is a fact. If I say, “You don’t do this job. It is not a good job, you should not do it.” So you don’t like it. So what to do? So Krishna has found out: He says that, “You tell them the hitam.” Hitam is in between. Whatever is hita for your Atma must be told. So, though it may not be priya just now, after some time it becomes priya. Because he realises, “What I have got out of you.” Of course, I don’t want to lose any one of you, I do not want you to lose your vibrations in any way. Never! How can I want it? I want you to have it. But you must know what your mind is up to.

Yesterday one gentleman was here; his Kundalini could not rise because he has had a some sort of an obsession. See the human mind how it works. Then he showed me a photograph. I was telling, “I will not tell you.” He was after my life. “You tell me what is this, what happened to me? I had become like this for three days. I went into trance. I had these things.” I didn’t want to tell him, because I know it would upset him. So I gave it (the photo) to one of these Sahaja yogis. They started burning their hands! They gave him back. Still he was after my life, “You must tell me! You must tell me!”

So I told him. I told him, “You are very possessed!” He was so angry with me. He was telling, “This is not Kundalini this can be anything!”

You can see the Kundalini rising, you can see this breathing of it, you can see the rising of it, you can see the acting of it, you can see the people who know about it, who know about collective consciousness. But he got angry with me for that and he went away. Now what am I to do?

You see yourself in this. This is the darpana (mirror) I am showing you!

There was another fellow who came – you have seen that hatha yogi. He was a police-walla (policeman). So I told him, “You have read Patanjala?” He said, “Yes.”

I said, “In Patanjala it is said that it is not meant for householders. It is meant for Sanyasies who are sitting in the jungles with a Guru. It’s yama, niyama, brahmacharya and everything. He said, “Yes, it’s true. There are eight things (ashtanga) to be done.” I said, “Are you doing eight things?” He said, “No.” “What is your relationship with your wife?” “She’s run away.” “Then?” “I have become very hot-tempered. Even my Guru is a big, hot-tempered man.” “Now you are teaching this to police people? God save us!” Oh God! They will have no heart left because if you do Hatha Yoga the heart becomes just like this. You have seen Durvasa and that horrible fellow Vishwamitra. Do you want to become that? They had no love for anyone. I have seen all these Hatha yogis. I wish they married, all of them. Those who are sitting in the jungle, who are Realised souls. They have no heart. They have no feeling. I’ve told you what is their feeling. They have no karuna (compassion) within themselves. They just say, “You are a Mother so you have the karuna.” No, but what about all the great saints – they had karuna. They were married people.

All the Hatha yogis, if you find anybody who’s doing Hatha yoga, whether a wife or a husband, they can never live with this, because all the chakras are spoiled; no brahmacharya is there.

(Someone asks some questions in Hindi, Mother scolds them in Hindi for a few minutes)

Seeker: I have some personal problem. I would like some of your time, tomorrow, day after. Half an hour’s time after the program.

Shri Mataji: You have some problem of Kundalini or what? Doubts.

Seeker: I have some doubts I want to clarify.

Shri Mataji: Doubts – first of all, did you get your Realisation?”

Seeker: No it’s not a question of getting realisation, but I was doing something; I would like to talk to you about it.

Shri Mataji: You have been doing something? (Hindi)’

Seeker: I have given it up.

Shri Mataji: Don’t you worry! We’ll see now supposing… You see what I’m saying. Alright, so it’s a good thing. You just sit down just now, we’ll see. If you get your Realisation – well and good. No problem, forget it. If you do not get, supposing there is a problem in you, already existing, they will immediately know on your chakras. Is me discuss karne ka kya? (What is the use of discussing?)

(Mother talks Hindi for a minute)

You see the Kundalini comes up and falls down. So what am I to do now?

(Hindi for 2 minutes)

Everybody can understand Hindi? Ah. Can’t follow?

Shri Mataji: That would be too much. If I say in English will you all follow?

Yes? (Hindi)

They have never bothered about the Spirit, you see, so we have to use some common language which speaks about Atma. English language is not sufficient enough. I must tell you. They do not have those experiences because this is so far they have not gone deep into it. And we are very old people, ancient people. Our culture has been to know God, and everything has come in Sanskrit because Sanskrit is really a devavani (divine language/sounds). Apart from that, when the Kundalini moves, She makes sounds, She makes different sounds, which, they are really devanagari sounds, all of them are, on all different chakras they are. If I have time I may tell you all those sounds that It makes.

So our Sanskrit is really a devavani, and even when you say mantras then, through the Sanskrit language or devanagari pronunciations only, you can excite them better. Try to learn if not Sanskrit at least Hindi, because it’s a more, sort of, a simpler language and, it being a phonetic language, you see, it has a sound and that sound gives that vibratory effect. You try to learn it. Hindi is not my mother tongue. My mother tongue is Marathi. I speak Hindi because, after all, I know the importance of it. I also know a little bit of English and I speak in English also.

So it is better to know at least Hindi. It’s not much. When we can know a foreign language, we can know our own one national language; there’s no harm in it. I mean this, I do not want to make it a political stuff, but what I’m saying is that – for conveying our…Marathi is alright for me, Bangala is alright. I don’t know much of Tamil or Telugu. But [with] Telugu also, Tamil also, you can, because this is a yoga bhoomi. This is a great country of yoga. You don’t know. Every particle of this bhoomi, you will be surprised, is vibrating. You see, these scientists, and all that, cannot understand this.

When we start accepting all that the West is saying, we are going to lose all that we had, which is so great. Of course, that it is not going to be lost. But, the thing is that they are not going to utilise it for our purpose. We have to close all that on one side and we’ll have to accept something, which is just a foreign, alien thing, and nothing so much comprehensive, you can say [that] it is not samakar, it doesn’t envelope everything.

So English language is alright – I can speak and I can talk to you and explain – but I would request you that little bit of Hindi language, if you learn, it’s a good thing. Because I find it very difficult. You know, there’s one speech of mine they have written in English and that was translated in Marathi, and what a tremendous thing it was, and in English I think it’s a poor show, absolute poor show. Maybe my English is very poor, maybe that. I don’t know, but maybe that.

So we were talking about Sat Chit Ananda. Again I have to use Sanskrit words; see now, what can I do?

Sat Chit Ananda is the super consciousness, the All-pervading power. Chit is attention, the consciousness, conscious. You are just now conscious listening to me. Every moment you are conscious, but every moment is becoming dead into the past. Every moment coming from the future to the present. But you are conscious at this moment, listening to me.

A thought rises like this and falls. You can see the rising of the thought but not the falling of the thought. In between the thoughts, there is a space which, in Sanskrit, we call it as vilamba. Of course, in English there isn’t, because they haven’t found it out. So there is a vilamba and in that vilamba if you can stop, then you get to the conscious mind, and there exists the Sat Chit Ananda. Sat Chit Ananda is the condition of mind, you can say, or is the state of mind where there is no thought, but you are aware – first. There is no thought – nirvichar – but you are aware. That is the first state, where you jump into, into the super-consciousness.

So some people may think that, by Realisation, you must achieve something as Adi Shankaracharya had. It’s not possible. With some it may be [but] with very few, but not with everyone.

First state is nirvichar. You become thoughtlessly aware. That’s just the first state. That happens when the Kundalini rises above the Agnya Chakra – means enters into the limbic area. At that time your attention just touches the sat point, the sat. The reality separates from mithya (myth). You are separated. You become two personalities. At that state you start separating. Like in the milk, when you put lime it starts separating into water and the curd. In the same way the beginning starts, the beginning starts – the beginning.

This is the state where you can say the Kundalini has been awakened only. You must understand the different stages as it happens.

I am giving you a very slow picture. But normally the Kundalini shoots off in most of the people. But in some people it does not, it takes time. It is lost in the Swadishthana, it is lost into the Nabhi. It doesn’t go much higher. It is arrested by the Hrday Chakra (Heart) or maybe it may not even rise at all. But in case it crosses this door of Agnya Chakra, then you get into the state of thoughtless awareness. With thoughtless awareness, as like whatever state you get, supposing, you become a governor, so you get a certain power. With that [awakening] you get certain powers. But, at this state, to leave the Kundalini is not a good thing. Because the Kundalini can, at that stage, start moving this side and that side, can, it’s possible. So it can go to the supra-conscious, or can go to the subconscious, collective subconscious. The siddhis (powers), people get mostly at this stage. Not the shudra siddhis but the higher siddhis. Like, you see, they can predict. They can say, “This is going to happen.” If the Kundalini has moved to the supra-conscious. If the Kundalini has moved to the collective subconscious, then they can start seeing things. A person who is like that, [if] he comes to me, he can see who I was in my previous lives. I do not have to convince them. This is the same thing as anybody who is possessed gets. A person who takes drugs, supposing he is a real alcoholic of the last word and he’s a good soul, means he is still seeking God – such a person can see me in a different form. He can see my past. He can be very much enamoured by me. Because, you see, people think the past is better than the present always! “Because the past has been much greater than today’s.” Though I have never given Realisation to anyone previously but, “It was a great past!” Because human beings are like that. So he gets enamoured when he sees things like that.

This happens with people who are on the subconscious level, if they move out. This happens to people if they move out onto the left-hand side, that is, into the past. Those who move out on the right-hand side can see me as light. They see light. They see all the five elements. They can see me as a waterfall or a iceberg. They start seeing the tanmatra. Now again it’s a Sanskrit word. It means the causal essence, causal essence of the elements.

It may help them to get convinced. Because such a person gets convinced about me, no doubt. Such a person is much more convinced than you are. Now, there are so many tantrikas who know who I was, they are afraid of me, they talk about me, they tell about me. There was an ordinary maidservant, who came to my programme and she got into this. She started speaking Sanskrit and she described me completely! Fifteen slokas she said. I never said anything about myself. That’s how it started (the recognition of Mother).

So at that stage I would not like to leave your Kundalini. Because you can cure people. Curative can be done with your Kundalini, even in the limbic area. I am very anxious, always, that it should come out of the Brahmarandhra. At that stage you start getting the vibrations. But at this stage you are just a chitta only, and you just touch sat point. Your attention is only charmed by the Spirit, only the attention part. Spirit, as I told you, is like a flicker of light in a gas lamp, and Kundalini is like a gas which touches the Spirit. And the light of the Spirit spreads in the central nervous system. But only the chitta part. The outer core is the chitta, means the attention part.

At that stage when the Kundalini opens the Brahmarandhra, at that time what you feel is the vibrations from your hand, and you can feel the another person also, because you become collectively conscious – collectively conscious only! Again, out of the Sat Chit Ananda you just touch the chitta point. So you start feeling the chitta of your chitta becoming the chitta of the collective consciousness. Means you drop into the ocean of Sat Chit Ananda in which you only feel the collective consciousness. That means you can feel another person’s Kundalini.

Yesterday there was another gentleman, as you have seen it, he was arguing with me that we have suspended his intelligence, and all that. I said, “What is this “suspended? I don’t know about this thing.” So I told him. He said, “I am in a turyadasha.”

I said, “If you are in turya you can feel the Kundalini of another person. You cannot certify yourself like that. Can you feel the Kundalini of another person?” He said, “No.” Then I said, “How can you be in the turya?” If you go into turya – that means, if you cross this stage – then you have to feel the Kundalini of another person.

Now you have seen there are many who can feel it. And they all say the same thing, the same language, whether they are English, Indians or anything. They say the same thing, that, “His chakra, this chakra is catching, that chakra is catching. It is not working.” Because you start seeing your Kundalini, you start seeing the Kundalini of others. Because on the fingers you can feel it. You can feel it on the fingers, what is happening.

So you just feel the chitta, not the ananda part. First stage is only chitta: that you feel the Kundalini of another person, you can raise the Kundalini of another person, you can give Realisation also, after a little while, to another person – of course, my photograph has to be used – but still you can. But the ananda stage is not yet touched.

So in the beginning you just feel the cool breeze in the hand. You feel the peace, tranquility also. There’s no thought, you feel the thoughtless awareness. But the ananda part is not felt at the first outset. Because now I have studied thousands of human beings and I have seen their problems, and this is a fact. But there are some, as I’ve told you, who reach the last stage – very few, very, very few. But among us we have here one or two persons whom – you can say – who have reached that stage also. They are not aware of it, perhaps, but anand they can feel it.

So [to] the first stage when you come, it is the chitta stage, the consciousness stage. You touch the sat, means you start seeing the reality. Is one thing that you are flowing, there’s something flowing. Then you start saying, “It’s going, it’s coming.” Just now you said, “It’s coming.” You didn’t say, “I am receiving, I am giving.” That ‘I’ goes out of your language. But still the ego and superego are not completely gone down. They are still there but your attention has come up and you feel the chitta.

With this collective consciousness you can cure people, you can give them Realisation, as I told you, and also you can feel the Kundalini of any person in the whole world. And also you can cure the Kundalini of that person. I mean cure, not the Kundalini, but I’m saying cure the chakras or improve the chakras of the other person. Sitting down here, you can do it. You can tell about the condition of the Kundalini of another person sitting down here, if you take interest. Wherever you attention goes it works – chitta. So your attention becomes universal. Your drop of your attention becomes one with the ocean of Sat Chit Anand [but] out of that, the attention part only. Listen to me for this very carefully because many people at this stage drop out. Only the attention becomes effective. Wherever they put attention, sitting down here.

Now I’ll tell you about a disciple of mine who had come from England. One day he was sitting and was thinking of his father, suddenly he got a burning on his finger, this finger, so he rang up his father.

He said, “How are you keeping?” So the mother said that, “He is very sick, he has got throat trouble.” This boy did something to his finger and all that – the father got alright. He can do it. Now he might think, he is very powerful. He does not. He cannot think that way, he cannot think [that], because, you see, because the hole has been made there (brahmarandhra). So he just says, “Mother, I felt it and I did like this and he was alright.” He never says that, “I cured.” ‘I’ goes out. In the language, in the words that you use you don’t say, “I did it.” You say, “It came. It went. It did. It’s not coming up.” Even then you will also say this, “Mother, today my Agnya is catching.” “Mother, my heart is catching.” They come and say like this about themselves.

Now say, Agnya is catching, means it’s a little maddening! But one doesn’t feel bad about it because he’s not attached to his chakras but to his Atma. So he says, as an Atma, he says, “Oh my this chakra is caught, that chakra is caught.”

A person now who is suffering, say, from cancer, does not know he is suffering from cancer. But a Realised person who gets his Realisation, his attention will tell him that these chakras are out of gear. And so many chakras out of gear means cancer. He need not go to the doctor. He can diagnose himself. But he will not diagnose the way the doctors do, that, “You have got the cancer of the heart and cancer of this thing and cancer of that.” But he will say, “It is these chakras are caught up, the left or the right.” Now from where it is coming, how far it is going, he can give the depth of the chakras. Because the chakras start from here to here, and this is the Void. So the depth of the chakras he can tell you, “It is from here, she’s catching from here.” “She’s catching from there and she’s catching from there.”

But there are many abstract things that happen – this is a very important thing. Once you get your Realisation the chiranjivas (angels) surrender. They are watching you. You become their responsibility. All the deities are awakened within you. If you do anything against the deities, immediately they will give you a heat. A person who has got Realisation, if he goes in a place which is not to be seen or which is not to be felt, which is not a good place, or a Guru or somebody like that, immediately he will feel heated up. If he doesn’t run away, if he still goes on and on and on, he’ll lose his vibrations, and he’ll become just like the other person.

So it’s a very transitory state still because still, at this point, the repulsion is not so great that the man does not accept it. Because if you accept it, you become just like that. If you do not accept it, that maybe little bodily problem you might have, you might little bit burn your fingers or might get little burning here or something like that. But if you are not afraid of these bodily things, and if you do not want to accept it, then you start rising higher. But, as I told you, all the chiranjivas start guiding you, looking after you. If there is one Realised person in a train, there cannot be an accident, and if there is an accident nobody will die in that train. If a Realised soul…

Yogi/Seeker: They can be wounded.

Shri Mataji: Ah, wounded, can be. But see, we remember we have seen of one incident where it happened: they were so slightly wounded that they didn’t take them to the hospital, any one of them. I mean, a little bit scratching might have been but, that’s what they told me.

There was one Realised soul who was traveling by train which collided near Thane (Mumbai) or some place. Then, if a Realised soul is walking on the road. And now, a Realised soul who is in nirvichara I am saying. You see, we have to grade them up! Walking on the road and if he sees a mishap, his attention goes there, immediately the mishap is averted.

Yogi/: Accident cannot happen then?

Shri Mataji: Yes; if he sees a mishap, then it is averted. Attention- you see, his attention he’s been blessed. Now, this is, for a scientist, cannot understand.

Seeker: But he is being guided by internal God. Then he can’t do anything by himself.

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no! The internal Gods are his own part and parcel! As you can say, “I am guided by my brain so I can’t do anything else.” You see, Gods are your internal parts yourself. What is self left then? What is your self?

Seeker: When you are united.

Shri Mataji: When you are united with that, then you are finished now. You become a hollow personality. Then you do not have this feeling of self. Then all the time what you say, “It is happening, “It is going,” “It is flowing,” “It is working.” It. You can even say like this; this little girl says, PrAgnya, she says, “This PrAgnya won’t go, she’s very obstinate. Just now her Agnya is caught so she won’t go.” She stands outside from herself and she criticises herself. She says, “Her Agnya is caught; she won’t go, she is very obstinate”. She is not PrAgnya. Even children say like that, many a times, if you notice, like a third person. You start looking at yourself as a third person. You do not identify your Self with yourself. It happens like that. You will see these people how they are working.

Then also there is a part of little enjoyment, which you must know, the joy – anand. You see, normally you will find most of the Sahaja yogis will gather round a person who is a Realised-soul, who is Realising, who is not a difficult person. Moreover if there is somebody who comes on my foot, who is a very great soul:

I’ll tell you, in Calcutta I went there, and I was staying in a hotel, and there was a very nice man who came to see me. He was not Realised but a very saintly person with a great purva sampada, and he just touched my feet, and other Sahaja yogis with other rooms they all rushed there! I said, “Why did you come?” He said, “Great joy started coming within us so we came.” And they were standing. He was all the time on my foot and they were standing. I said, “Neither is he going to leave me nor you are going to leave me!” For fifteen minutes he was just drinking the nectar of my feet and they were enjoying his nectar and the fragrance of it. So the joy of enjoying another human being also starts.

So the three things: how you enjoy nirvichar samadhi as they call. Samadhi doesn’t mean going into unconscious but the unconscious becomes conscious. Whatever is not yet conscious becomes conscious. The unconscious, the Universal Unconscious becomes conscious.  So this is the first stage when it takes. There are many things like this and variety of things happen.

Supposing you have been doing lot of light puja, what you call the jyoti puja, in your previous life then you can see my vibrations. There are two, three people who can see my vibrations coming, going; they see all the movement. Supposing you have been doing Devi puja. Say you are a Devi puja: you have a sampada (wealth) of that, of a Devi puja. Then you see something of  Devi’s pramaan (evidence) as you can say. You can see that also. That is a better thing than to see before [Realisation] because if you see before Realisation [it] means you are a possessed person, somebody is giving you ideas.  After Realisation [if] you start seeing certain things, then it has some meaning.  So the gradual growth of the flower starts.

Then the second stage, where you become nirvikalpa, where there is no vikalpa (doubt). Just now in Delhi there are very few who are like that, very few, because, first of all, by temperament they are vikalpis. The reason is, here is a complete atmosphere of vikalpa. If you say something another one will pull you down by saying something else. So, the thing is, the whole atmosphere is so vikalpi that you are not yet subtle about it, about the Sahaja Yoga, still in vikalpa. But we have some very great Sahaja yogis also in Delhi, very great.

So the vikalpa is there. Now you will say, “How do you become nirvikalpa?” Supposing you are in the water, you are afraid of getting drowned. You are picked up and put in the boat, so you are not afraid of becoming drowned. But when are you settled? When you are settled. I mean, it is such a state that – when are you settled in a boat? When you are settled in a boat! I mean, that’s how I can answer it. You have to be settled. But, with that, you get certain powers. Your Kundalini starts showing. We have, in Bombay, some people whose Kundalini is at least one foot higher, one foot higher. You can see. You can it. I mean you may not, but so many people can see that. And they are a very deep people, very deep.

At the nirvikalpa state the Collective Consciousness becomes very subtle – subtler, subtler. At that stage you can understand very deep significances of things and the reality starts becoming clearer. For example: You start understanding the working of the Kundalini, You start understanding how it penetrates. You start understanding how it works out. You can use it for experimentation. With your own hand you can move it as you like it. You can cure people and you can show the Kundalini is working in different ways. You can combine, and permutations and combinations of Kundalini you can do.

You can say, that in the first year of music, you just learn the seven notes and two others notes, just that, and ordinary ragas. But when you grow subtler and higher then you know all the minute points, how to create.

So at the nirvikalpa you need not put your hand towards a person, nothing. Sitting down you know where it is. What is happening? Who is catching? What is the problem? What is the collective problem? Then you have no doubts about Sahaja Yoga, nor about Kundalini, nor about anything; no doubts at all.

But at that time, you start experimenting with it. You start using it. Mastery starts. At this stage the chitta, the consciousness, becomes subtler.

Now, somebody was sitting with me. Outside they knew that, “This gentlemen is going to get Realisation.” They knew that Mother was giving Realisation to someone. Such people are very satisfied people. They do not grudge and grumble about small things. They do not enter into small things at all. They are not bothered. They live in a big way. They are not touched. Their attention is [not] in the gross. They have no time for outside gross things. So their attention is very deep into the subtle forms. They are not bothered. Such people are satisfied souls. Such people are the ones who are going to create a pillar for Sahaja Yoga. Because when somebody sees such a person, a transformed person like that, [they are] shocked. He says, “Look at this man! He’s such a great person, and he was such a horrid man, and how has he become like this? How is he transformed?” At this stage, at the nirvikalpa state, the vibrations emit. Then you can sit with me here, you start. Then there is no questioning at all. And such a man can get into a terrible temper if he sees somebody misbehaving with me. He can’t bear misbehaving with me. Christ said, “Forgive all those, because they do not know what they are doing.” But supposing they had done anything against His Mother, He would not have forgiven even this much, I can tell you, even this much. And in the Bible it is written that, “Nothing will be tolerated against the Holy Ghost!” And Holy Ghost is His own Mother, is the Adi Shakti.

Hence you cannot tolerate anything against your Mother or Sahaj yoga and one can get into a tremendous temper or a samhara shakti which they develop.  It is said that such a man if anybody tries to do some harm he will immediately bring him down through their devotion towards their Mother.  We have a notion that a realised person should never lose his temper.  It is a very wrong idea.  Then you will say, “Why Krishna killed Jarasandha? Why did he kill Kansa?” How do you explain the violence of Krishna? How do you explain Devi who killed demons when she came and got into her Temper? She used to get into tremendous temper and then she used to kill.  The temper of Shiva! How do you explain this?

It is a foolish idea to say that they should not get into the temper even if someone tries to kill them.  Even Christ had to take the whip () in his hand and drive them away.  You have a right to get into a temper, if you are in a nirvikalpa state since you are given that right of even raising one’s own voice when need arises.  I am using all the ayudhas, if you have noticed in my hand, the Chakra, the parasha etc.  They are there and I have to use them and you cannot stop me from using them.  This is what I say that by reading people don’t understand things.  A man who is quietly sitting and is being pestered by every body is called a realised person-what nonsense 1 How dare you spite at such a man? Is the spite of a Devi to be borne by a realised soul? To say that a realised soul should not get into a temper is a wrong thing.

Now all those rishis I have talked about and all those people who have talked about me and whose names I have given you, they are all above nirvikalpa, but they are very hot tempered.  These saints cannot tolerate hypocrisy but I can’ and I have to.  No rakshas can go near them but if anybody goes they are put into a noose and are hanged on the tree.  That’s why I say never go near the babaji!  They are higher people, no doubt, better than you all are and they know me very well and they fall at my feet.  They are very innocent and simple like children to me.  More important is Shri Ganesha.  If he gets angry it is not so easy to control him.  It is easier to control Shri Shiva’s but not Ganesh’s anger.  Beware of him.  That is why during Kundalini Awakening, you get burning sensation and you start dancing or jumping, all this is Ganesha’s anger.  If you have insulted him by any chance, or insulted his Mother, He gets into a tremendous fury.

It is true that after nirvikalpa, the Ganesha becomes really jagrut (awakened).  Such a person is not tempted by any women.  No temptation for another women will exist, except for his own wife, where he goes on living like a celebrated husband, because husband and wife are united in a bond of matrimony.  Otherwise, he is a sanctified householder.  He does not have temptation for any alcohol or anything like smoking and is beyond temptation.  A nirvikalpa man cannot have any temptation.

One man came to me and told me that he was a Realised-soul.  I said, “How can it be? If you are a realised Soul, how are you taking to these things? You cannot!”  Now for me, I will tell you, it is an impossibility.  I have never taken anything. Once my doctor gave me a little brandy as a medicine.  I don’t know why, but he felt like giving it to me without informing me; due to which I vomited so much of blood, since my stomach is religious or sacred. If I see a woman who has dressed provocatively or something like that or sometimes I have to accompany my husband to parties and they start a cabaret or some such thing, immediately I start getting vomiting sensation like hell. And more so when we are the chief guests.

I make their lives miserable since something happens in my stomach when I see these half-dressed women.  Now what can I do with my stomach is the point because the dharma is born within our stomach.  So the stomach becomes the dharma itself.  At this stage the subtle style of things starts. Your Mooladhara becomes chastity itself.  It just cannot bear these things.  You don’t have to tell them.  They have just no interest in such women.  They do not flirt nor have they any interest in all these things.  They do not bother too much to dress up in such a way that they would be very attractive to other women or men and at that time they believe like very simple people.  They get to simplicity dignified, Then suddenly they become very creative also.

There is one gentleman in Bombay who got into nirvikalpa state.  He came to me when he was jobless.  So I told him “Why don’t you start interior decoration work?” He said that he did not know different types of wood nor could differentiate between one type and another so what could he do? I said, “Now, you are in nirvikalpa so start it.”  Today he is a very rich man.

It just becomes dynamic, because you start seeing the beauty, the saundarya of the nature.  You see-aesthetics are born in a person who is a realised Soul.  He starts seeing aesthetics in everything.  The beauty of talking improves.  The movements of the hands improve and your style also improves.  You become a beautiful person aesthetics come in.  You can become suddenly a great poet.  We have two people like that who have written beautiful poems and you can also be a great painter if you a already a painter.  You get new ideas about painting, new aesthetics.  In music, you start understanding absolutely.  You may not know what classical music is but you will start understanding the subtle music.  From the classical music you will know which is the best for your Atma.  You see the atma starts judging everything on that level.  If you appoint such a person to judge a drama or a painting, whether it is good or bad, he will correctly judge it good or bad.  Then you put his selection to all the critics of the world and they will say it is the best judgment Now, you will ask me, “How does he know?” Because he can feel by vibrations and complete harmony in everything.

You give him a Statue of a deity and ask him all about this statue whether it is alright or not.  He might say that it is not alright.

You can feel the subtle vibrations, whether it is in dharma or otherwise.  Now can we say say that ashta-vinayakas (eight Ganesh Swayambus) are living Gods. How do you know? Jyotirlingas are living. How will you know? Unless you know the integration of all the great souls together and how are you going to judge them?  That is why you must get Realisation.  This is what my father told me.  I should say he was my first Guru, as he was a realised soul.  He told me, “It is of no use talking about realities etc., because you will create another Bible or Gita.  You do a practical thing.  You find out a mass-media.” and I knew that was my mission So I worked on everybody’s Kundalini and tried to find out permutations, combinations, of their mistakes and why these people are like this.  You will be surprised that so many-people never knew that they were even in Nirvichara.  They did not know that they were highly placed spirits.  If they would have known, then they would not have told many things which have conditioned you.  They have said, “Sach bolo!” (speak the truth)  Who is going to speak truth?  They did not know what Human beings are?  They are incarnations, a great people.  They did not know much about the Human beings and how cunning they are or how they are all the time against each other.  They could not come to the subtle human level.  For that one has to have a Human self-realisation, as I now have. As such I know human beings but some things, of course, I do not understand.

When you get into the nirvikalpa state, the ananda starts settling in you.  When you see cities, any beautiful picture or scene, immediately what you find is a great flow of ananda Coming down.  This is the Grace that you are just lost into it; like the Ganges flowing over you, you are completely drowned into it.  Your consciousness becomes anand.

In reality you come to know that till now we have never known there is a Sarvavyapi Shakti’ but now we are aware of the same.  We can feel it coming in our fingers.  This is the Reality.  There is Chaitanya all around us, which thinks, which understands, organises and loves us.  All this you come to know the knowledge part of it.  Then the Anand which is the Hridaya starts emitting it.  Later on what you get is valaya into ananda.  At that stage complete Self realisation takes place.  At that stage you can control the sun, you can control the moon, you can control every element.

Beyond that there is God’s Realisation.  There are three stages to that also. But just now I have told about this sat-chit-anand state.  The God’s Realisation is the stage which, Gautam Buddha and Mahavira only had achieved and settled down in our brain. Christ is also here.  These two are not incarnations.  They are born as Human beings. They were born to Sita, as Lava and Kusha. Then they were born as Buddha and Mahavira and Adi Shakti was their Mother once again.  Later on they were born to Fatima-bi as Hassan and Hussein.  They are the two milestones you have got, by which you can know to what height a Human being can rise.

Now today they are like incarnations.  There are other styles of personalities like Chiranjivas, Bhairava, Ganesha.  There are all incarnations.  Hanumana later on appeared as Gabriel the Angel.  Bhairavnath came as Saint Michael.  The names are different, but they are the same personalities.  Devi has also incarnated.  There is no doubt about it.  The scientist will not understand this but a Sahaja Yogi can.  Because they can immediately feel their vibrations and can ask questions. You can ask questions about me also and you will get the vibrations.  For that at least your Deities have to rise and say “Yes”.  You may or you may not get Realisation but the answer you will definitely get.

May God bless you.