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1982-02-22 Public Program at Gandhi Bhavan

…The creation of Kailasha took place. We Indians worship Kailash as the residence of Shiva, Sadashiva, God Almighty who is eternal. First, the Parabrahma, the Nirakara, the one that is without forms was in a sleeping state. When it awakened, it is called as Sadashiva.

At that stage his power became the Adishakti the Primordial Mother, we can call her the Holy Ghost. This Primordial Mother created her creation to please the Sadashiva which was no more but a witness to this spectacle. He was the spectator.

I will not go into the details of creation today but one has to remember that all that is created is a deliberation and is not an accident.

Later on Adishakti created three powers out of herself which you know the power of desire, the power of action and the power of evolution or dharma.

These three powers were created out of the pure desire that she had, to be one with her Lord, God Almighty Sadashiva.

This desire resides within us as Kundalini, the fourth, fourth power within us – as the Kundalini, which is sleeping in the triangular bone.

As [SOUND LIKE Jako Ghopal/Jaigopal] has told recently that people don’t know how to raise the Kundalini and don’t know how to guide it. Actually, Kundalini can only be risen by a person who is an authority, spiritual authority. Or could be through the Adi Kundalini itself.

I told you yesterday how in the ancient times also this knowledge of Kundalini was known to us. This knowledge was known to us that India, because India is the country where we are supposed to look after the roots of the creation. We have to look after the roots while others have the tree, the flowers and the fruits.

In India the roots grew up unknown to common masses.

These roots reached that stage where Kundalini became a knowledge of very, very few people actually extremely few I should say. And this knowledge was not revealed for many days till I would say Adi Shankaracharya himself started talking about it.

Though Markandeya has described Kundalini, the different powers of the Mother but it was Adi Shankaracharya who came to this Earth and he is the one who talked of Kundalini openly. The reason was, before this it was kept secret and part of it was revealed and people used to doubt – or if it was to be revealed whom to reveal it, because there were very few people who were incapable of knowing about it.

In the Bible it is written that there will be a tree of life; and this tree of life is nothing but the whole Sushumna Nadi and its branches.

Also, written that “I will appear before you like tongues of flames”.

What are these things, tongues of flames are, if you see your Sahastrara, I do not know how many of you have seen your Sahastrara, it looks like thousand tongues of flames.

We call them petals. It’s more beautiful to call them petals but they are flames. When they are awakened they look like flames, very silent flames burning.

And when this Sahastrara you see, when you see the beauty of the Sahastrara you are amazed that to a gross mind this brain is nothing but the fat cells put together.

But when you get your realization then you find that the same thing that looks like just a group of fat cells and these nerves as elongated fat cells you can call them, when they are enlightened you see the light around them and they are like enlightened wicks of a candle, very long burning flames, beautiful, in different colors, very silent, very beautiful.

This is all is a cock-and-bull story for normal person, and one… it’s difficult for a person to talk about it. As I told you yesterday you have to have a microscope to see something under your skin. Is much more than that you need to see what’s inside you; because this is the area which is under the ground, and not above the ground.

But it’s so essential to have the roots to the tree, in the same way the spiritual life is the most important thing for the existence of this universe, existence of all the human beings. If the spiritual life is not there they cannot exist.

Now this knowledge could have been challenged by the West, by the people who are intellectuals. Those who see with their gross eyes and believe into what is there because this is being honest about it I should say.

But still we have to reach a certain conclusions that when these people talked of the Spirit that the Spirit exists in your heart, that there is a Spirit, that you have to be born again, to be that, all these things that even when Christ has talked so much about it, then one has to think that they could not be lying to us, they are not befooling us.

They didn’t want anything; what did we give them? Like something like crucifixion, torture. Then why did all of them talk of this spiritual life, about eternal life, about the Spirit, about the rebirth of a human being.

Every scientist must honestly look into it and reach a conclusion that at least there has to be something about it.

Of course scientifically you cannot reach there, mentally you cannot reach there.

For example, if I’ve come in the car I have to leave my car there and come inside. It has its own limitations, in the same way your intelligence and science has its own limitation, it has to happen in a way that a spontaneous living happening take place.

We cannot with scientific research sprout a seed. We cannot transform a flower into a fruit. Actually, we cannot do anything living whatsoever.

The other day there was an argument, a lady stood up, she was a scientist and she felt very hurt. She said “Oh, we are creating two babies”. I said “But the living thing that you get for the two babies is coming from somewhere else; you cannot create life.”

So one has to understand that this process of life we have not understood through science, not through mental activity and so we are not going to understand Kundalini through our mental activity.

But once you get your realization everything becomes logical.

Example could be like this, a man is blind, he cannot see the color of this wall, he cannot see the color of these curtains, he does not know the dimension of this room. Supposing you tell him something about it, it’s a myth for him, it’s a myth.

But by some chance if you can open his eyes, then the whole myth becomes logical and he starts understanding it through his logic which was blind before, and now is open to this new experience.

A complete science of Divine laws are placed within you. Tomorrow your children may challenge your science; of course they will challenge all the religions also. But science can be challenged.

For example, many laws of science which were regarded as laws have been now challenged and re-challenged. But the laws of God once you find them are not challengeable.

For example once you get your realization, once you become the Spirit you become the absolute. There is no relative relationship left: everything else is relative to the Spirit.

The Spirit is the absolute point where you reach. The rest of it is all relative; and that Spirit emits the power called as Brahma Shakti or connects you to the power called Brahma Shakti the Divine power of God’s love.

Unless and until you are connected with the Spirit, you cannot feel that Divine power that is not explained by this brain but is seen, working, activating, doing all these living processes in the world.

That’s we start feeling within us – it’s a question of feeling it just like hot and cold, a cool breeze of the Holy Ghost in the hand, which is the real bodha, is the real feeling in the central nervous system of a human being.

So the new dimension develops within us when the Spirit is enlightened.

Now, today is the day when that Spirit was first reflected on a material thing on this Earth.

Now to us we take everything for granted. For example, Earth was created out of the Sun. Alright then, how is it, it is so – sometimes it is iced in places there is ice there is something. What is it happened?

Actually, it was taken away from the Sun. (Shri Mataji speaks in Hindi – side comment)

Now this Mother Earth which you see today was created out of the Sun after the Big Bang. All that story I will tell you sometimes later, but then was taken away from the Sun and was frozen. It was taken away very near to the Moon where it was completely frozen. Then it was slowly brought nearer to the Sun and it was found that there was a spot specially selected by this Brahma Shakti to create the Kailasha and that spot was chosen much before all these things were done to the Mother Earth and at that spot the ice stayed forever in the shape of a face. This is the face of the God Almighty.

Now, one may say that you should not believe in the puja of the statues, in the worship of the statues is absolutely correct.

I am also absolutely against the worship of the statue. But statue is different from something that is called as Swayambhu, which is born by itself.

In the Bible it was said, when Moses who brought the Ten Commandments, that “Thou shalt not worship anything that is re-created out of the things that are created by the sky or the Mother Earth.”

This is a very important point. What are the things that are created by the Mother Earth and by the sky? Instead of going into this, people just said that better not worship statues.

It cannot be reproduced and worshipped. Said by, of course all those who follow that like even Islam follows the same Torah, is followed by the Jews and followed also by the Christians. All these five books of the Old Testament, the Ten Commandments are common for all these three people.

But that doesn’t mean that you should not worship that is created by the Mother Earth but nobody went into that.

You see, human beings always try to find loopholes. Then Mohammad Sahib himself said these things, that he followed this, and Mohammad Sahib himself was born as our great guru, Guru Nanaka.

Guru Nanak was not a human being. He was not only a Paygambar but he was the reincarnation of Adi, Adi Guru, the Primordial Master, He was a divine personality.

Of course, the people who were there at His time were so useless and gross people that they actually tortured His life and nobody followed Him. After His death is a different point.

He also has said that it is the Primordial Mother who has created the Universe.

At that time in this country people were following a ritualistic, nonsensical Hindu religion which was very much departed from the real ancient religion of Upanishadas. Because the so called paid priests had taken over and they were taking people to temples created by them – not by the Mother Earth – and making money out of it.

Now these temples were just used as money-making propositions. At such a juncture when he was born, he had to put all his attention to this, and talk about it and say that, “Better not worship any statue.”

But there were living points of vibrations from the Mother Earth which we call as jagrut.

The other day I went to a place called Musalwadi were it is said that, they didn’t know but I told them, that a Goddess killed a great demon called Rahu with Her musal. Musal is a beam and that’s why it is called as Musalwadi.

There I found the vibrations were tremendous. And I asked them “Is there any temple here of some jagrut?” They said “No Mother, there is no temple like that”. I said “Must be”. They said “Ah, there is one place”.

Very funny, that when the British were here they wanted to make a bund, we call it bund, “b u n d,” bund, [sahaja yogis suggest ‘dam’] dam. A kind of a dam, but the dam is made with a bund, ‘b u n d’.

So this was to be placed in a straight line across a lake but they just could not do it at a point about say fifty feet or so, hundred feet or so, and every time they tried to build something it would just disappear. And they did not know what was happening, disappearing to Mother Earth. And they found it impossible to build it there.

So one Sadhu, some realized soul or a fakir came that way, and he said “See, this is the place which is a Swayambu place. Is a place created by itself, you better not do anything here. Even if you have to build something you better go round it”.

And he drew the line and really that dam is built with that bund, which is not in a straight line but has also a circular thing gone inside, I mean, it’s never done..

So I went to see that place and it was so vibrated. Such cool vibrations were coming out of it.

I was really amazed that it is so much neglected. I said “You build the temple here, but don’t put somebody to make money; but you can make a temple just to respect that the Mother Earth has created this great thing and is… the vibrations are like Sahastrara, is something so special.”

Now, to know about this only a saint understands, whether is Muslim, Sikh or Hindu or Christian does not matter, saints are saints, means those who are twice born.

It’s not a saint who is certified by any organization. You cannot organize God and you cannot certify a saint. “Oh, you are PhD in saintliness”.

Oh we have, we have you know such certificates these days, everybody is giving certificates. “You are saint such and such, you are saint.” They call themselves saints.

In Hindi language it’s called a sant, so many call them sant. This Sant, that, and there is the Kundalini which is completely frozen down there.

So it happens, that people you see take to artificial things, and start worshipping something that is not real.

So these vibrations are emitted out of the stone, you’ll be amazed. Now, those who are realized souls here, who could ever have a chance to see the photograph of Kailash, you will see the vibrations are coming. If you get a close photograph of that, my son-in law-has been there recently, you see a complete face which is retained like that, all the twelve years… twelve months throughout the year.

All these years, it is maintained that shape, the eyes, the nose, the face and the mouth. And there is Brahma and also Vishnu on one side. That face is also maintained, it’s an area of twelve miles if you go round.

All those twelve miles area is covered with snow and the shape of that face is maintained throughout. How can it be possible, unless and until there is some Divine thing.

Now, many people say that in Ambernath what is there, a water drops out like that and you get a kind of a Shivalinga. But if you see the vibrations of that Shivalinga, you will be amazed. It’s very powerful, very powerful!

Now that’s also a trick of the Divine to pour so much of water down, you cannot make it.

If human beings want to make it they’ll make a mess out of it. I mean, people will sell even plastic things. I’ve seen, they’re selling plastic Ambernaths and worshipping it.

Mostly, ninety nine percent people do that only because they are not saints.

Even one percent people are not saints.

It is point zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero one percent persons might be today saints.

I don’t know what is the idea, it was in long time when there were in one crore there was one, they said. But in those days even the population of the whole world would not be one crore. It was like that.

So, you can imagine that very few people, negligible people used to know that there is a place which is created by nature, which is emitting vibrations.

And because he said it, people started worshipping it but they made a mess out of it.

I mean, you make mess out of living people also. Why of these things?

I mean, see now anybody what they are doing.

If you see to what we have done to Christ, what we have done to Mohammad Sahib, what we have done to Guru Nanak, what we have done to Mahavira or to Buddha we should be really ashamed and should be at least aware that if we can make a mess of human beings who lived, who talked, who said, out of them we create these nonsensical fanaticisms, then what about these things which are just emitting vibrations.

That’s why it was prohibited that you don’t worship anything, let it be.

They talked of the Spirit. Become the Spirit, because that’s the first step, better achieve the first step.

That’s why Buddha also said that better not talk of God or anything, just don’t talk of anything else, but just become the Spirit.

I also for three years I was just talking about Para Brahma. But I found you can’t just take people to Para Brahma unless and until they know all about other things.

They’re so much attacked by the negative forces, by the ignorance that they are to be told.

For example, if I have a helicopter I can put all my children in the helicopter and take them in the kingdom of God. But you have to walk and when you have to walk I have to tell you about the serpents you’ll meet, about the stones, about the curves, the false and the faltering. As a Mother it is possible.

What He said that Mother has to do it because today while reading about the Goddess there was a beautiful description that She is not only knowledge, She’s not only knowledge but She also knows everything about ignorance.

This is something so great, a Mother knows what is knowledge and She knows what my children are suffering from. This is the beauty. And that’s why the Mother can only solve this problem.

All the gurus came, you just tortured them. They were knowledge and they didn’t know what sort of upside-down people – in Hindi they call ulti khopdi – people you are. And they struggled with you, they tried to say something sensible but they couldn’t reach anyone and when they went away you made a real mess out of them.

This is the children I have. And I knew that kind of children I have to meet and face.

But I love them and I know they are seekers. They are to be brought round with patience, with love, with understanding and then they are to be given realization. Without realization talking about God becomes a [futile lift ??]. It is of no use. It’s like talking to a blind man about something that he cannot see or perceive.

Today is the great day I said of Mahashivaratri.

It’s really a very great day because today is this great Kailasha was established.

Because one may ask a question, “If Shiva is the eternal thing, He never changes, He never incarnates, then why, how could You say that a particular day is so important?”

Because He was reflected on this Earth as Shiva on the Kailasha. His residence is Kailash. And that is why He is a Dakshinamurti. He is looking at the dakshin, mean looking at the South. He is looking at the South because He is the man who is the spectator of all the things that are happening.

India is the most ancient land that came out and it has the Kundalini in its triangular position where we have Eastern, Western ghats and the Vindhya – in that portion is the Kundalini of the whole Universe.

So to watch the work of the Kundalini He’s facing towards the South. And I was surprised to hear that people think that if you put your head onto the South and place your feet towards the North is a very good thing. It’s the most inauspicious thing. I mean, I’m amazed something, sometimes the way we are told to do things. Imagine you are putting your feet towards Shiva. I mean, these Brahmins also sometimes have made such mistakes that you just have to suffer for it. Imagine you put your feet towards somebody who is Shiva! But this is I was amazed. In the same way I find people are fasting on the day the Gods are born.

Like on the day Rama is born there is a fast, Krishna is born there is a fast, any God is born on that day, I hope Sikhs do not fast on the day Guru Nanak is born as a child (laughter, She laughs).

Is this possible? But the day somebody is born in our family, some child is born and that too such a Divine personality, are we to fast?

This we do on the day of sutak when somebody dies. So we do such absurd things in our ritualistic life also, that we really become inauspicious and then we think our Kundalini is not rising.

There was a gentleman who had a problem of prostate gland and he was, he came to Me and he is a Sahaja Yogi too. But still Sahaja Yogis when they become Sahaja Yogis still something sticks onto them, they don’t know, “We have come to an Universal awareness now”.

So being a Brahmin he was worshipping Ganesha very well, I was happy, he was a great Ganesha worshipper but what happened that he got this prostate gland. And the prostate gland is controlled by Shri Ganesha. I was amazed how could he get prostate gland.

And when he came to see Me that was the day, I did not know it was Sankrashti, is the day-worth of Shri Ganesh. I offered him My Prasada, that’s chana what we eat, this peas…- chickpeas, that’s what I eat, so I gave him. He looked at Me and the other fellow said, “Mother today is his fast”.

I said “For what”. He said “Today is Sankrashti”. I said “On Sankrashti day you fast, even after realization?” He said “Yes, I do”.

And I said “Then you must have prostate. That’s evident, because after realization also if you do not accept the truth that that is the day He was born and you are not to fast on that day.”

I said, “You better take this chana”.

So he took it, he ate it and you’ll be amazed when he went back the doctor said there is no prostate. Yes, it is true.

It is miraculous but it is so.

We made such terrible mistakes in our life, these small, small mistakes which we do not know what mistakes we are making and how we get it.

For example, we’ll say Catholics now, Catholics in England have a funny system of confession. I don’t know from where did they get this idea into their heads.

You see I can’t understand why should you confess to another human being anything? And what is the need of confession?

I mean he is appointed by some theological college and he says that this is the mistake you have committed, and then you believe into that mistake that you have committed, and you say that, “All right, I will confess to you that this is the mistake I’ve committed”.

Now, these people have no right to listen to your confessions. Nor does it have any understanding as what they can do about your confessions.

All such people I’ve seen suffer from left Vishuddhi. Left Vishuddhi problem is terrible. With left Vishuddhi problem you catch cold, you have sinuses, you have spondylitis, you have guilty feelings. All kinds of problems come up with that and you can be possessed also. So most of the Catholics I’ve seen are so funny in their old age, you can see them in old age. I have nothing to say against anyone but I’ve seen a fact, that in old age they become the really lunatics.

Because, if they have to go to the Church, they’ll get up in the morning, dress up, go to the Church, come back home. But the rest of the time they are so mad that they reach a stage where they can’t even recognize their own children.

They become so eccentric and so fanatically funny that sometimes when you talk to them you find that as if you are facing some lunatics. They drink so much; they are such extremists. They drink and drink and drink.

And we had a Church next to us and I was amazed that in the daytime there was only one activity on, was in the Church. In the Church, believe me. There was only one activity, all kinds of drums and bottles were coming and empty bottles were going. You can imagine, in the Church? Such absurd things people do in the name of God. Because Christ, they say did not say anything against wine, because He increased the wine in a wedding.

You see in those days there was nothing like this horrible wine. Wine means what we call drakshasa is the grape juice.

That is the country of grapes and people used to just have grapes.

So now they think Christ has said, “Alright you can drink and by drinking only you will go to God.” (Laughter) It is such an absurd situation that unless and until you get your realization how will you be able to know what you are doing is right or wrong – because you have got hold of some idea.

Now, this is Sikhism according to you for example, this is Hinduism, this is Christianity, this is that, this is that; but how far we are related to truth?

How far what we understand about them is the truth? How will you know? For example I was told, I’ve never read Gita, that in the Bible it is written that you are born as a Brahmin. It is an impossible situation. How can you be born as a Brahmin? You have to become a Brahmin, isn’t it? Brahmin is the one who knows the Brahma. The one who is born again is a dwija, is a Brahmin.

But it is they said is written in the Gita that it is prenatal quality that you are born as a Brahmin. Is an impossibility. It can be proved logically. Because Vyasa, who has written Gita, was a son of a fisherwoman illegitimately begotten from Parashar Muni. Now he is not going to write this. Try to understand. Anybody might say that, “I am a born Brahmin.” It’s not true, you have to become a Brahmin.

There is a ritual at the age of eight years they do or seven years, which they call you are being twice born’. But that’s ritual, has no sense. This ritual has to be done by a guru who is a realized soul who gives you realization. Actually, it’s an actualization and then one has to say that you are a Brahmin. It’s not an artificial thing.

Once you make it artificial Hinduism looks like a foolish stupid thing, same about Christianity which looks so stupid. Every religion looks so stupid in the eyes of people who are logical that they think, “Better forget it, have communism.” To them Communism is the only solution.

In Algeria there’s a big movement for the fundamentalist. And the fundamentalist just like Khomeini-style thinks they are trying to work it out. But the young people there who are architects and doctors and engineers, they just thought that this religion seems to be a funny thing, so better not go in for this. Better become communist, is a sensible, where this complication of religion is not there.

If they could see that this fanaticism is just taking us to madness, fighting, quarreling, “This is my land, this is my house, this is this … this.”

In religion these things are not there.

So they decided that, “We’ll become communist.” And when they decided that, “We’ll become communist” at that juncture only, one of them came to London and somehow or other we got him into Sahaja Yoga. When he got his realization he was amazed.

He said this fanaticism is wrong and that communism is wrong.

Now all the fanatics who believe in fanaticism should look at Mr Khomeini who thinks no end of himself, he thinks he’s God himself and the work he’s doing is all nonsensical. There is nothing of love, compassion and wisdom in this man. In every person who is a fanatic this is what it is.

When this boy got his realization he went and told them that, “No, there is truth, there is God. I know for definite there is God.” And he gave realization to five hundred young people in that country Algeria. And now we have people who come to England to get their realization. We have found lots of them residing even in Paris and that is how all these people are going to take to Sahaja Yoga.

But fanaticism is at its worst in this country of ours. Everybody’s religion is in danger in this religious country, everybody’s religion. There’s no question of Hindu, Muslim or… Everybody’s religion is going to dogs.

Religion can never go to dogs. It is shashwat, it is sanatan has come out of people who are sent by God, who are of avataras, who are not ordinary mundane people to be destroyed by your nonsense.

Whatever you may try you cannot destroy. Whatever you try to spoil their images they cannot be destroyed and spoiled. But if your religion is so weak, let it be destroyed then.

We ourselves, you see, prove that our religion is weak because we have not known the person (persons?) who’ve brought this religion on this Earth. We have done no justice to them because we have not found our Spirit.

If we find our Spirit then we have done full justice to them, because we become a different person, we ourselves become a saint.

We become a different people of authority like Kabira: how he sings, how he talks.

Today only I recited him a beautiful couplet that [hindi]. He says the, “the compassion of my heart I’ll make it vibrate” [hindi] “In the, all the five elements I’ll put it.”

Look at the authority with which he talked. And why these Sanskrit panditas are calling him [sounds like – sadhu cree] this that, all sorts of things; they cannot understand. For them he is just a man of the ordinary street you see…

And Guru Nanaka himself was so intelligent. He compiled all the works of the realized souls in his….[own? Work? Book?]

But I was amazed you see where Kabira lived and worked, in that Bihar, where he has used the word surathi for Kundalini, is used for tobacco. (Laughter) Yes! Surathi means Kundalini, the purity, the virginity within you.

He writes the – stat surathi, description of the Kundalini as we see in Sahaja Yoga, and they call surathi as tobacco. But this is really what we have done out of them.

Believe me. We are so absurd that it is better that all of you who are my children find the Spirit, find the Truth and then relate your religion to that truth and don’t get entangled with all the funny ideas and all the limited ideas and all the dead ideas which are clinging on to the Truth.

And like the sun is overshadowed by these clouds you better get your eyes to see the sun; and if you are really that, if you are a real Hindu, a real Christian, a real Sikh, get your Spirit and bring out all your people who are lost in the ignorance.

Today is a great day – again I say – of the Spirit being manifested on this Mother Earth and we have to today vow that we will also manifest our Spirit on this Earth.

You have to get that Spirit awakened and once it is awakened [SOUNDS LIKE pacha hi tattwa janahama] like that is the power of Spirit.

The power of Spirit that you have, of course, you cure people, is a third rate work I should say, curing people is absolutely nothing so great. You cure people just like that, no problem.

If the person is a good person, he’s very good, he has no other problem, he gets cured very fast. But there are problems which are very deep, there are possessions which come from very wrong things, all these things are not so difficult but takes your patience.

They makes you feel sometimes that how to make it, how to talk to them about it, even to talk to them they feel hurt, you know. If you tell them they don’t like it. But it is true we have to tell them.

If such people are cured who are saints, are going to be saints, it’s such a great thing for a Mother to see.

But you would not like to cure a person who is good for nothing.

And that’s why such people are to be realized and given good health.

Then they are given a complete freedom to understand Sahaj Yoga.

Because once you have the vibrations you stand on your freedom, on your security.

You know where you stand, you are not afraid like Jaigopal has said, that once you get this, then you start developing and start seeing and you know what’s happening.

You know for definite that this is wrong, that is right.

In the beginning you may make little mistakes of realization but gradually you know, “No, not that, we know that very well, no, not me.”

The people just run away. Then they say, “What sort of saints are these?” I said, “They are the ones who have seen it that there is a big crocodile sitting and they just don’t want to deal with the crocodile.”

Said “All right, all right you are very good, we have realized (? unclear) thank you very much.” They just stop that man.

And then they say, “Why don’t you want to argue with us?” Then they’ll say, “You see you are too intelligent for us so please excuse us.”

So all this discretion develops and people do not argue, they do not say anything. They said, “Alright go ahead with it.” So all discretion how to deal with people, how to understand them, how to understand the situation, everything develops because you become the knowledge.

There’s the light. You can see everything; that is very true that this Spirit is Sat-Chit-Ananda, it is Sat-Chit-Ananda. Satya is the truth.

You know the truth. It is the truth-giver, is the light that gives you the truth.

You know truth about everything. Whatever is the untruth you do not get any vibrations.

For example, somebody would say object, “Why Mother you speak so much for Mohammad Sahib?”

There was one gentleman who came to argue against. So I told him, “Alright you feel the vibrations, ask, “Was he not the Adi Shankara, (She corrects Herself) Adi Guru?” And immediately he got the vibrations. I said, “Now, now you talk”. You can’t understand these people at this level, you will understand them at that level. You will understand all of them so well and you will be amazed that they are all related to each other. Absolutely one with each other. We are the people who are not in that relationship as yet but they are all related to each other and they are absolutely in concord and in love with each other.

With all this knowledge you know the Satya, and your Chitta, your attention, which I was telling you yesterday, becomes so enlightened, it’s so enlightened that you know the Satya, you can feel it, where is the vibration, what’s happening, who is catching, what is happening, what chakras.

Anybody who comes and tells you, “My Kundalini is awakened”, alright you tell him, “Where is my Kundalini?” They will not be able to tell you. “Alright tell me, what’s the matter with me?” They won’t be able to tell you.

If your Kundalini is awakened, minimum of minimum you should know what is the problem with the other person. Even a little child can say that this person has this problem.

Immediately they will know, they are very busy especially born-realized children are very busy.

I can give you a conversation of my own granddaughters. The one was only three years that time, another was about seven years. And the younger one went to some school for they gave her a letter. She brought home, she said “I do not know how to read, why they gave us?” Now imagine in the school they are sending these letters from these three-year-old children because the parents would read it. It was written that in such a hotel if you come on such and such date and pay a hundred rupees you can get your transformation. [INDIAN WORDS] I told her. So the little one says that, “If you pay hundred rupees how can you get your transformation? Your Kundalini has to be awakened, isn’t it?” The little one, three year old. And it was written then you have to do the course of eight days. So the elder one said, “Oh, that’s a tall story, see my father has done five courses, his Kundalini has not awakened at all. How can you awaken the Kundalini?”. (General laughter)

This is what the realized souls are. You see the way they behave. Like my another grandson who was giving realization to all the London Sahaja yogis. He was trying to correct it and put it right. And when he was giving realization he was just sitting on their back, when they were on My feet and was sliding down like a slide and was bringing the Kundalini downward.

So I told him, “Why don’t you do in your village this thing?”. So he’s from Bihar so he said, “All right I can do it, but what about these feet? Will You take them there? Without these feet how can I do it?” And then he went and washed his hands and went away to school and said, “I’m not going to look at you people, now keep yourself clean.” Like an old man he tells them. “Keep yourself clean now.” This is what it is.

If you have that Satya within you, as a child also you know; Sat-Chit-Ananda, and such a person is always Prasanna Chitta, is a happy person.

[Shri Mataji speaks in Hindi]

Question: Mataji, what is your view about astrology, Indian astrology?

Shri Mataji: Astrology. I hope you are not a newspaper man. Astrology is all correct, it is so.

Whatever comes through astrology is absolutely correct, has been seen through great seers and whatever they say is true. No doubt. But after realization you go beyond it.

You’re beyond, then there is no astrology attached to you. Till you are not realized you are in that chakkar.

Like if you are in the water you are afraid of getting drowned but if you get into the boat then you see it. So, it is like that.