Talk To Sahaja Yogis: Plans For India, 28-01-1983, New Delhi, India
[The conversations between Shri Mataji and Sahaja Yogis take place in English and Hindi. Hindi portions are translated into English].
Shri Mataji: Now, you see, the thing is, how many are already settled for marriage? Raise your hands.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s Chandra and Martin.
Shri Mataji: Not yet.
Sahaja Yogi: Not yet?
Shri Mataji: That’s not yet done.
Sahaja Yogi: Robert…
Shri Mataji: Because he still has a problem with [UNCLEAR]. I told him very frankly, unless and until you are fully sorted out, you are not to…
Sahaja Yogi: OK.
Shri Mataji: I don’t want him to lose his job. All right? Because he maintains] his job. If he has to resign and go away, that’s not proper.
Sahaja Yogi: That’s right.
Shri Mataji: Then what will he do?
Sahaja Yogi: That’s very practical.
Shri Mataji: That’s very practical.
Sahaja Yogi: Robert and Nirmala are coming. They have been married by Arya Samaj yesterday. Patrick and Madhu Rai have been married, I think today, by Arya Samaj. They are coming up to Delhi in two days’ time. They drove Patricia, and are very happy to go ahead.
Shri Mataji: Three of them.
Sahaja Yogi: Guido and Isabel seek your blessings in the marriage. And that’s all that I have [UNCLEAR].
Shri Mataji: Four of them. I also want to meet [UNCLEAR].
Sahaja Yogi: And five older people who want to remarry.
Shri Mataji: So five and four we have?
Sahaja Yogi: At this stage. Any others?
Shri Mataji: Now the list you are circulating. And what about Marcus? Marcus?
[UNCLEAR/Sahaja Yogis take some other names].
Shri Mataji: And do any of the girls want to marry any boy? Let’s put it like that. Should give me the names. The boys that you choose. And your names. So I give you. So I can talk to them privately. All right? Can you do that?
Those girls who want to marry, if they have any choice of boys – let me know.
Have you decided with your mental capacity or with vibratory awareness?
[Sahaja Yogis are laughing].
Sahaja Yogini: She wants to get remarried.
Shri Mataji: Ah, it is a good idea. You know the [UNCLEAR/now]. That would be very helpful. Very good idea. That’s a good idea.
(In Hindi): Anyone else?
Now, those girls who want to marry. If they want to marry, if they see some boy who they would like to marry, you may write it down. I will ask the boy in private. If he agrees, accepts it – well and good. Otherwise, forget it.
Sahaja Yogi: Put it down now girls. Put it down on a paper and give it to Mother. Let’s get something moving.
See, they may be saying no for one reason. They may be already having someone in view or something. Doesn’t matter. In any case, you shouldn’t be upset about it. But it’s a good thing that the girl should decide.
What are you doing? Anna, don’t put that.
Sahaja Yogi: Hitting my eyebrows, Mother.
Shri Mataji: So should I give it to the girls, some paper? Because the problem is, we have to arrange some horses.
[Sahaja Yogis cannot stop laughing. Shri Mataji is speaking with a small child].
Shri Mataji: …Little, little boys have fun to play with. Did you see them? Very nice boy.
Child: Very nice. What’s this?
Shri Mataji (to a Sahaja Yogi): How many can stay here?
Sahaja Yogi: Here, just one can stay.
Shri Mataji: Kartik is already there. If some of you would like to stay, it is an ashram. Plus, other Sahaja Yogis will come and stay. And what about food?
Some of the Indian Sahaja Yogis would like to come and stay here for three-four days. Who? Please ask them to raise their hands.
(To a Sahaja Yogi): You try to stay without your wife for a couple of days. Mr. Verma will not leave his wife for even a day.
[Laughter].
Sahaja Yogi: There is Mr. Rai.
Shri Mataji: Mr. Rai and you are one. Who else has the courage to leave their wives and stay here? Or any wives who can leave their husbands and stay?
Yes, will you stay? And what about you?
Sahaja Yogi: My wife [UNCLEAR].
Shri Mataji: But in your house, you are having some Sahaja Yogis.
[UNCLEAR/Shri Mataji and Sahaja Yogi discuss it further].
Shri Mataji: See, our Indian men and women are so attached to each other, that’s the problem. We must detach them. It’s the other way round. An Indian man can’t stay without his wife. Because he doesn’t know anything. He doesn’t know how to cook, how to stitch his buttons, anything. He will stick to his wife. And the wife can’t exist without the husband. For various reasons.
So now. [UNCLEAR] call ladies. Indian ladies? [UNCLEAR]. Anyone else who can muster the courage?
[UNCLEAR/Sahaja Yogi is mentioning someone].
Shri Mataji: Also get Kulkarni’s mother-in-law. Get her here. Where is she? Where is she? She is stitched to her husband too much. All right. You get her here (Laughs).
[UNCLEAR/Shri Mataji and Sahaja Yogis are talking and laughing].
Shri Mataji: Because all of you are so exhausted from making decisions from morning till evening for the smallest things like a comb, you have lost the power to decide anything. You feel nervous about it. What is there to be nervous? [UNCLEAR].
So keep it with you. Give Me tomorrow. All right?
How many boys are not yet married? Raise your hands. Not married, no girlfriends or anything.
Sahaja Yogi: If they could stand up, the girls could see them better.
[Laughter].
Shri Mataji: They are feeling shy. Please stand up.
[Laughter].
All right. So they are very handsome and good-looking.
All right. Now, so, with the further understanding, we have to give a bandhan to have our life in Delhi. Give a bandhan. And desire. Ask for it.
As soon as I touched Delhi, so many ministers are gone. They have all resigned. Do you know that? All the ministers had to resign. Inclusive of My great brother. All of them. Mrs. Indira Gandhi has asked all of them to resign. And all the chief ministers may have to resign tomorrow.
[Shri Mataji talks with a small child for a few minutes].
Now what is happening about our Delhi thing – you just give us a report. Let us know – Subramanian.
Sahaja Yogi: Three years ago we applied for allotment of land in Greater Delhi. Delhi or greater Delhi, anywhere. That was at the time of the Janata government at that time. They directed one of the engineers to accompany me and show me this area near Qutab Patiala. By the side of Sai [UNCLEAR]. We did inspect that. And we liked that. And we had gone to the DDA authorities for taking the appropriate action in processing the case. Subsequently, the government changed and then they said, “No, this we can’t give you”.
I mean, they didn’t give me in writing. But after some telephone calls and all – “we can’t give you this area, we can give the other area, the garden area”. You know Mother, you also inspected that.
Shri Mataji: What happened?
Sahaja Yogi: That area they earmarked for you. But some land development body – some green pastures have to be left between the colonies. So that came under that jurisdiction. So they said this can’t be given. So now we are again doing rework.
We really do not have a direction for this one. I have been meeting them off and on. But so far, fruitless proposition. I have been knocking on the doors every time and going. Even Dr. Nagendra Singh, justice of the International Court of Justice; he has been talking to the governor.
Shri Mataji: So what is the reason they are giving for not giving us this land here?
Sahaja Yogi: I mean, it is earmarked for, it is a costly land. We can get some money out of it. Government can sell the land or something like that.
Shri Mataji: But it has only been kept for charities. But that area is only for charities, I know for definite.
Sahaja Yogi: But the people keep on changing the requirement.
Shri Mataji: No, but they have already allotted for charities. You see, you should ask them a direct question – “Why?” When this land was – because it is closer to this place, you see. It would be better.
Sahaja Yogi: We need to put a bit more pressure to open the file and allot it to us.
Shri Mataji: So now, who will work it out? That is the point.
Sahaja Yogi: So Dr. Nagendra Singh will again seek his guidance. I request him to see the governor, Jagmohan. He is the man, the concerned person.
Shri Mataji: So you got the file?
Sahaja Yogi: I have got the file and everything, intact.
Shri Mataji: So, you fix My appointment with Dr. Nagendra Singh tomorrow. Give Me the file. And I will tell him. But which one would you like to have – that side or this side?
Sahaja Yogi: This is South Delhi, in a way. And the cost of construction would be cheaper, because, all rocky area.
Shri Mataji: Here?
Sahaja Yogi: That may also depend little – Jamuna side. We may have to do multi-story construction. We may have to put some [UNCLEAR/pipes] and all that. For multi-story construction probably the cost maybe a little too high. But there is a lake nearby, a good lake and green pastures.
Shri Mataji: Cost, leave it. There is not a significant difference.
Another Sahaja Yogi: That is better than.
Sahaja Yogi: That would actually be better then, I must say. You must ask him, Mother to give at least one acre of land.
Shri Mataji: But from a conveyance point of view?
Sahaja Yogi: Conveyance – Delhi is very well connected. Anywhere you can go very fast. Public conveyance is very good.
Shri Mataji: So you have got these things demarcated in that file? All right. So tomorrow I will go and see.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: This should happen because we have got so many lands now. I think this should happen because we are getting it. Today also we have fixed up about that land in Bombay. Because the man who came to see Me today; he belongs to the Maharashtra government, that sort of thing. And he said he will do everything that is needed, so might be, he might get it.
So now we have already got three projects, already established sort of a thing. The first one is in Avadgaon. The land in Avadgaon. Which you have seen. I think, Aradgaon, they call it – quite a big land. That’s one land. And another is a land that they have given it to Me, of My forefathers. In Nandgaon. And the third one is the one they want to give us is near the lake where you have [UNCLEAR] the building of the temple of the Sahasrara.
So like that, these three are definitely in hand. Now here we have to start three types of centers. I have in My mind that the one that they have given for Me; I can arrange, spend money on that. Make a place for rural development through Sahaja Yoga. One. You write it down. One means the rural development through Sahaja.
So, it has to be a very comprehensive center. And some of you will have to come here for a few months. Start the center. You have to take the lead for the first three-four months; come and stay there. So, building another [UNCLEAR/team/thing], we put it right. But once it’s done, somebody has to come and work it out. So thus we have one center which will work out all kinds of rural development.
We have got all the tables made which will be available very soon to us. About how many people are suffering from psychosomatic troubles. We can help them out with their psychosomatic troubles. You will be surprised, out of eleven villages, I could only see a streak of healthy people. Most of them are suffering from this or that – all kinds of diseases – which are all curable through Sahaja Yoga.
Secondly, the land is very, very stony type – just stones. But the stone can be used because we can have some nice wells there. And it has got water underneath. And you can feel it, with your vibrations – you can find out if there is water or not. In any case, there is a lot of water. And this water can be used for irrigation or something like that. We can make that land fertile. And wherever there is land, we can give vibrations and vibrated water, and knowledge about vibrations to the villagers – and improve their yields.
And in these lands, where you have got what you call the stony part we can tell them how to improve the cattle. For that we can help them through vibrations – we can help. And we can improve the cattle and [UNCLEAR/finally have] a good dairy with vibrated water. And also that the milk will be vibrated and people can take it.
Thirdly, we can have poultry. Or a kind of husbandry. With other things on this rocky place. Even the rocks can be used very well. You see, we can pay attention to them. Now, this should not be a business [UNCLEAR/competition] problem.
[Public broadcast in the background].
Who is this?
Sahaja Yogis: Elections going on.
Shri Mataji: Election?
Sahaja Yogi: Elections. They are going around doing propaganda.
Shri Mataji: Election. So, when you have understood that we have to develop poultry farming through vibrations there – piggeries and all these things we can develop. So that we can provide protein food to those eleven villages which are [UNCLEAR/suffering].
Of course, to begin with, we must start this work. You will be amazed – everybody will come to help. But we must start. But we must make this project. And in such a sensible way that people will be able to see that we are doing something very concrete. Now also we should find out what small-scale industries we can start. With the stone, what can we do? Can we make cement or something out of that? I know you hate cement (Sahaja Yogis laugh). But we may need some sort of a thing like that.
Sahaja Yogi: We can put up a crusher.
Shri Mataji: Crusher? Now see, what I was thinking. I don’t know these days, people have become too modern. But we also used to use bajri (a type of sand). I also asked Yogi Mahajan. Is he here?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: He also told Me, we use bajri. For cementing the stones. So we can do some building construction there. With stones and this bajri in between with gara (mortar). And that’s how we can improve their huts. By giving them cheap advice – how to make their homes and houses. And how to improve their villages. So we can work it out that way. And that will also help them for their housing.
So, housing we have done. Food, by cattle and by improving their vegetation also. Vegetables also we can improve. With vibrations, we can get very good vegetables. And also their crops.
But we should see to it that we should try to make it a self-sufficient place. Villages. By the other project that we have. Near this lake. We can have some school, to begin with. On basic education style. Of Gandhiji. Which is a very practical thing, I must say. Whatever these people say about him. He was an extremely practical man and we should really have this education system there.
We can have a school there with basic education and with education in our Indian arts and culture. Because villagers don’t know anything about arts and Indian culture or anything. Though they have picked up this music from somewhere, I don’t know how – they have no proper understanding of ragas and talas. But, in Maharashtrians you see, they have good voices. They always sing in taal (rhythm) and raagdhaari (classical notes).
But I don’t know how they have picked up. Because there are no schools, nothing – no way of telling them. [UNCLEAR/Yet] they will be singing; even Marwah (raga) I have heard them. And also Shri raga, like that they sing. So we should have a school for their children of music, dancing and [UNCLEAR/art].
So, we can have a basic education school. The only trouble with basic education was, that he was very, very dry. Gandhiji was a very dry man. Absolutely dry. So dry. I mean he made everything so dry; it used to bore Me completely. We should have basic education plus art. Then painting and drawings and all that – we can use for children there. To make their lives full.
So there is one school near Musalwadi. This is another project we have to prepare. We have to study how we can arrange it. Then, the third land, I said, which is available to us in Avadgaon. For that, I would like you to tell Me what you would like to do. It is a very large, stony land. Along the side of a river. Both the sides of a river. Absolutely stone is this.
Sahaja Yogi: Could it be improved Mother, [UNCLEAR] for severity there?
Shri Mataji: No, I mean stone is very good. You get flooring automatically. If you want to make buildings, there is automatic flooring you see. Stone is very good for foundation or anything. It is an excellent thing. You don’t have to bother about having a foundation. You take out the stones and make the buildings. So that’s one thing which is there. But what will you do there is the point.
I was thinking that is the one we should use for animal husbandry. And for poultry. What do you say? Because it is all stone. Such a long, I mean fifty acres of land, all stones. It will be very good. Because we can clear it out, clean it very well. Because it is stones you don’t have mud and all those problems like that. Just you can put animals and things like that. It is very useful.
Sahaja Yogi: Water is there, Mother?
Shri Mataji: Yes, water is flowing all the time. You see, it is like a river, it has become stones on the side and the river is in the center.
Sahaja Yogi: [ UNCLEAR], any amount of farming, we require water.
Shri Mataji: Water is required. There’s a river flowing. Then we can do animal husbandry. Then we can ask all these people to donate. Some goats or things from there. Some cows from abroad.
Sahaja Yogi: Switzerland cows, Mother.
Shri Mataji: From where, from Switzerland?
Sahaja Yogi: Gregoire brings his, Mother (laughter).
Shri Mataji: Switzerland has good cows? But they will need Switzerland climate.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: We can have Australian. Australian is the best.
Sahaja Yogi: At Rahuri University, they are cross-breeding cattle and are using Swiss brown cows, one of the breeds they are cross-breeding.
Shri Mataji: All right. So we can take help from them also. But you will have to give us something as a present from them. Because we have to [UNCLEAR/fill] this animal husbandry. Mister Chavan is there, he will help us do it. But I was thinking we will first organize something which is not with university staff. Because in the university, the students have to go and learn everything. There is not, they are directly available. The help is not directly available.
Sahaja Yogi: Universities tend to teach, university lecturers.
Shri Mataji: They are more [UNCLEAR]. No practical. So that kind of a thing we can arrange around the university. Those close to the university; they can tell us. And in this basic education, we can arrange one more thing, which is very important – a nursery. Nursery.
All right, we can have the nursery as the first center if you want. Because by nursery you can really help them to have plants, and respect for plants. You can look after the plants. That’s how. What else is needed for the [UNCLEAR]? And bullock carts. They need bullock carts. But we have to give them tires so that bullock carts do not spoil the road too. So we have to teach this – how to make bullock carts. That for their conveyance.
Sahaja Yogi: Solar power and wind power.
Shri Mataji: That is a good idea. If you can send somebody to help us learn how to build a solar power plant. Can you run cars on them?
Sahaja Yogi: [UNCLEAR].
Shri Mataji: See, the idea is we don’t need any help. We are [UNCLEAR] ourselves. If we can…
Sahaja Yogi: Wind power is very useful for generating electricity.
Shri Mataji: We don’t have so much wind power. We have solar power if we can. We have electrical power everywhere in Maharashtra, no problem. Because we have those projects going on. But what we really need now is solar power. We can start it on our own on a smaller basis, let’s see.
I mean, your government might also help. You can say we want to do this work there, voluntary work. They might help you, your governments might help you. Because they are in the help business. We can tackle so many agencies for that kind of work. Try to find somebody with solar power.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, this can be done in India itself. They have the department of science and technology.
Shri Mataji: Your department, I don’t want to have anything to do with it. Nothing. Nothing with them. You see, nothing trickles down. It all goes into the pockets of people. We have to do something that is absolutely honest; something that will go directly to the public.
Without any profit. Even if you get the profit, anything, we will recycle it. Into the project and nobody is going to take any profit out of it. And we have to have a very honest institution that helps directly to the villagers. An ideal institution we have to create.
Nothing to do with the government. We have nothing to do with this government of yours.
Sahaja Yogi: No, we can take the technology and implement it ourselves. That’s all.
Shri Mataji: Vidya, whatever you try with this government is a problem. Supposing, supposing we ask them for help. All right? Tomorrow the parliament will sit on our head.
Sahaja Yogi: No, we don’t ask for help. We say we are doing it for a common [UNCLEAR].
Shri Mataji: If you stand up, I will hear you better. Please stand up, I will hear you better. I can’t hear you. If you don’t mind. What is it? What did you say?
Sahaja Yogi: I said, there is technology available. We will buy the technology and implement it ourselves. Three places.
Shri Mataji: If you are Sahaja Yogis, of course, you can do it.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes. And that is what we can do. We can use the bio-sources. You have indicated animal farming. It will serve as fuel.
Shri Mataji: That is the work.
Sahaja Yogi: We will use solar energy panels. How to develop the panel, we can do it ourselves with the help of the Sahaja Yogis.
Shri Mataji: Yes, only Sahaja Yogis. Because if you get any non-Sahaja Yogis technical people, you know the problem is there. Which we don’t want to have any loopholes. If you people – of course, biogas and all, that is in My mind. Because that we can utilize there; all these things can be done. And that will work out. But we have to show that without making any bad money, we can improve the conditions of the villagers.
Which is not for political ends, or for creating a political impression on people – it is only for their betterment.
Sahaja Yogi: But this is a very, very, I should say, sacred idea?
Shri Mataji: That is, Sahaja Yoga is sacred. We all have to dedicate ourselves, devote ourselves, to give ourselves without charging very much, reasonable or at all, maybe as a sacrifice. Because you know, we got this independence with very great sacrifice.
Sahaja Yogi: Take, for example, the solar mill which will run by the water with the help of solar energy. Now, this can be replicated for about five hundred rupees approximately.
Shri Mataji: I know.
Sahaja Yogi: And we can do it at that stony place and supply to the villagers.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Sahaja Yogi: And we should put the industries in the stony areas which you have indicated and wherever there is some land available, we should develop technology and tell them how best to use the resources and thereby generate a self-supporting society.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Sahaja Yogi: And I have been trying the idea for a very long time. And very keen that You have taken away words from my mouth. Well, I offer my services in any capacity. You are right.
Shri Mataji: May God Bless You. But now you see, in Australia, they have very much developed the solar system. So we can get help from them. We are all Sahaja Yogis. So we have to help everyone, everywhere. And this is an experiment we are trying just now to see that we work it out with the help of each nation.
Attention should be there to the divine blessings of God. And try to do something substantial which will give them the feeling that they are in the Kingdom of God.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, I want Your blessings so that I can, You allow me to contact the people and get the technology and get from Australia what we don’t have. Say, for example, a solar panel which converts the solar energy directly into electricity and you can run a fan, a tube, and a TV.
Shri Mataji: All things are working out [UNCLEAR]. So now, we put you; let us put him in charge of the solar system. All right? And he has to prepare a complete table of, I will show you the table I have prepared. How beautifully I have prepared. So you see the table I have prepared of all these people – what they are suffering from and what we are going to do.
So make a proper thing now, with this. So, this is a constructive side of Sahaja Yoga which is absolutely pragmatic. So you have to take him into consideration and people like him. So write it down.
But the whole thing should be started from a small thing. Let us not go into a big thing. That is one principle of Sahaja Yoga, always.
If there are only two people doing Sahaja Yoga, I am satisfied. As long as they are doing it. But no use having thousands and all useless people. So first start with a small thing, work it out for a small unit. Then start increasing it, enlarging it, like that. So make it more useful to a smaller unit first and then to a bigger one.
Then one unit you should work it out. This way, then it will follow ideally for others. And then people will take to Sahaja Yoga. Will be a way of propagating Sahaja Yoga.
And that is how we will do the development. Not from the point of view of how we become attached to the machines but that we should be so comfortable that we see that others are also comfortable [UNCLEAR]. Because we should share everything. Sharing is the main thing. And with that idea, if we are starting, then we should not keep it large. Our [UNCLEAR] should be on a small-scale basis.
And if we do it on a small scale basis less problems will be there. You will be amazed there will be less problems. And we should not ask for big industries and all; we don’t need it. What we need are small little things by which we can solve the problem. Like, Warren had a good idea. He said that he can take these cane juice machines. And put them up. We can form Sahaja Yoga centers along those.
Warren: Brisbane.
Shri Mataji: In Australia. [UNCLEAR], how many we want, we will try to find a supplier who will supply it there. Who can take it and on the other side, you can manage?
Warren: We will put Sahaja Yogis in charge and they can spread Sahaja Yoga, plus…
Shri Mataji: Sugarcane is grown so much over there. See how [UNCLEAR]. How many Australians must have come here and seen it, but they don’t know. Sugarcane is growing along the coastline. Now, these people are producing sugarcane, is all becoming sugar. But sugarcane juice is so much enjoyable that anything else will be [UNCLEAR].
Then now they will take these crushers. They will plug it. They have electricity, no problem. And make these juices and have little stalls, you see. Sahaja Yoga stalls. Where there will be vibrated sugarcane juice for their Nabhis. [Applause].
That is how to enter into the subtle side of human beings you see. And in the proper style of attendance and loving way and caring for them. Showing that you are a human being and not in a way that people run their organizations. With temper, indifference, and also a mechanical style of dealing with human beings.
Naturally, people will start [UNCLEAR] their families. With that, you can show things like [UNCLEAR/ceramics]. With that, you come down from that higher-paced plastic civilization to something medium-paced. Because it’s too much. Human beings can’t bear it and it’s just blasting. They don’t want to have it. But no use running away from it. You should come down, settle down in the center. We have to bring all of them in the center. Now, to do that, India have to be lifted up a little you see, and Western people have to come down. That’s the way. All right?
Now, any more condition problems?
Sahaja Yogi: [UNCLEAR/asking about olive oil].
Shri Mataji: Olive oil is so expensive in this country. Olive oil you can’t grow perhaps.
Sahaja Yogi: We make all the other safflower, and sunflower unsaturated oils grow on acreage on which we will be doing the crushing. Soya oil…
Shri Mataji: Mustard. [UNCLEAR]. We will sell that. Export there or something.
Sahaja Yogi: There will not be a market for it in these parts? Can’t we sell it?
Shri Mataji: There is no market.
[UNCLEAR/Shri Mataji and Sahaja Yogi are discussing it].
Shri Mataji: You go ahead. You can [UNCLEAR/make] sunflower [UNCLEAR/grow] which can be used for the villagers because they are taking that horrible groundnut oil.
[UNCLEAR/Shri Mataji and Sahaja Yogi are discussing it].
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, sugar [UNCLEAR/transport]; it is very expensive.
Shri Mataji: Sugarcane sugar?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes. Sugarcane.
Second Sahaja Yogi: You mean the stalk?
Sahaja Yogi: Not the stick. Sugar
Second Sahaja Yogi: Sugarcane sugar is very difficult to get. Most of the sugar is beetroot sugar.
Shri Mataji: Well, if you can arrange it, we can send it. It is very important to have sugarcane sugar. Even in London, it is very difficult. But you know that [UNCLEAR/people can buy it/biased]. Very difficult, if they can accept it. That’s very important for now. English people [UNCLEAR], that’s not true. I am not too sure of that.
Sahaja Yogi: That’s from the information desk and they said it came from sugarcane in the West Indies.
Shri Mataji: But I think we need something. [UNCLEAR].
Sahaja Yogi: It’s so refined it’s almost tasteless.
Shri Mataji: Absolutely. So refined. No grain in it. Absolutely everything is [UNCLEAR]. Very refined, it is absolutely tasteless. But see, I don’t know, the sugarcane you get here, sugar is very beautiful. It is not very sweet not very [unclear]. I did not find it.
But there is one thing we can do about the sugarcane is offer in those places. It is a very small-scale fruit, small-scale industry. It will be very helpful to villages there if we make candy sugar. And candy sugar is even more effective than sugar. Very effective. For liver. Candy sugar. And candy sugar relatively is very expensive in the market. Sugar we might get, but I don’t know – you please let Me know, maybe something. But candy sugar I know is twelve rupees.
So candy sugar can be made, surprising, in a very small scale way. And if they are Sahaja Yogis, which we have, then even more. Because that will go to the liver and people in the villages suffer from liver troubles so much. Because it is so much heat.
Just imagine, how God arranges things. There, there is so much of sun, they will give sugarcane to compensate. You don’t know His blessings. Where in Scotland it is so very cold, so He gave so much of coal there. How He is protecting you. We take it for granted, everything. Whatever we need, He gives.
But, if we do not understand the value of His Love, and transport it to others, His Love, then we are becoming barriers. Now, these barriers we have to break through these three things.
Now, can you come in?
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, whatever technology is used in Australia in the by-products of sugar manufacture such as molasses and also baggas.
Shri Mataji: That we are going to give.
Sahaja Yogi: We are going to [unclear/lease] them too.
Shri Mataji: No in the third world instruments, buy them.
[UNCLEAR].
Sahaja Yogi: There is also Mother, the organizational side of small-scale industries. Management, and the aspect of connecting to markets. There is an area there.
Shri Mataji: We will not get into too much know-how. It is to be consumed.
Sahaja Yogi: So, organization of.
Shri Mataji: It should be more on a self-sufficient basis. You might take about eleven villages, you might take twenty-two villages, but we should work on a self-sufficient (system).
Sahaja Yogi: Co-operative system.
Shri Mataji: It is more self-sufficiency; even in consumption. It should not depend on other places for something. And it should not be ego-oriented stuff. In India, you see, if you give them something foreign, they think no end of themselves. Stupid as they are. You see, for them, you get everything in England. You see, this is the best thing that you get in India because it is a very hot country. If you wear something from foreign, you can be lost.
But here people have that kind of a [unclear/kink/thing]. Same thing in England – that you get something from [unclear]. I can understand English because you don’t get any silks there, all artificial – I can understand. But in India you will be surprised, where we get everything real, we want to have everything artificial. Plastic we want to have from outside; all sorts of things.
So in India, if we want to make it self-sufficient, it will be a very good thing. Once they start getting things from outside, they will go for plastics and nylon. That is what they will go into. To stop that, what we can do is try to make them more self-sufficient. The things you like, these Indian villagers don’t like at all. Nor Indian.
You see our whole thinking has become more plastic than yours now. Because you also had plastic. Now you have declined from there. We are going towards plastic now. If you go to a [unclear] place, they will be very happy to show you a plastic sofa that [UNCLEAR].
Even [unclear]. You are laughing? Ask anyone. Something made of plastic is something so great in India. We have so much of brass, so much of things and apparently now brass is becoming a status symbol. And you call it dirty steel. And we think stainless steel is very sophisticated, you see. Really.
Even if you go to an Indian’s house, they will never give you food in a brass plate. They can. But they won’t. Because they will think, “Oh, what will you think of us, very low?”. But steel is given because a Western person will think it higher. Now you tell Me what to do?
We are always suffering from the Western complex. Which is to be corrected through Sahaja Yoga. It is very interesting after [unclear]. Now that you are laughing at it, but it’s the truth here. It’s the truth.
Sahaja Yogi: They say brass is a precious commodity in the country. Brass, it attracts attention, it is rare. Because copper is not available in our country. Which is the main reason why.
Shri Mataji: Na, na, na.
Sahaja Yogi: Costly things in power plants, costly things are stolen. Even gold may not be stolen.
Shri Mataji: Brass, I tell you. I know for definite those who have brass also will use stainless steel. In My own house, I have seen it. For us, brass is a lower thing than stainless steel. Is more expensive also. Then, how do you justify?
Sahaja Yogi: It is not available in the country. Copper is expensive.
Shri Mataji: See, whatever, you are taking so much steel from outside. Stainless steel is imported. It is. Why is it more expensive than brass then? There is no demand. If there is demand, according to you.
Sahaja Yogi: If they say, [UNCLEAR].
Shri Mataji: Because they are not given any incentive. It’s not that expensive. Copper is easy to import. It is easy to import copper. See, stainless steel is a thing that you have to put your attention to. Because you do not understand that stainless steel has no vibrations. On Sahaja Yoga style if you see, then the brass has much more vibrations than the stainless steel has. Stainless steel is without vibrations.
In your own house, say, if you have a brass plate and you have a steel, tell Me which one do you use? No, no, frankly. I am an Indian; I know Indian character. You know the reason is, our value system is wrong. Our value system is wrong.
And when you start using, I will you one thing – when you start using brass, you will consume less metal. But if you use stainless steel, you will use more. When we had brass in our family – say your mother had – how many utensils she had? And how many do you have?
We are consuming all this because stainless steel is made by machine. And the machine is like a rakshasa, taking out everything from the Mother Earth; she has to produce more. But if you have, say, brass things – you will have few. You will do more mehnat (labor) to clean it, but you will save the Mother. Being exhausted, we have too many things.
Go see the labor of stainless steel. If you ask the maid who cleans the dishes, she will say when there were twenty utensils to clean, with stainless steel there are a hundred every day. In the essence, what you have done – you have consumed your Mother Earth. Completely. Putting these big machines.
The brass workers, who used to work with brass are finished. Now, what are you doing to make with stainless steel? What art are you going to create in this horrible steel? All the artists have died; art has died. And that shine of brass is not there. So this steel that you are consuming too much from the Mother [UNCLEAR], stop these machines. You go in any house, you see so much of steel, I get such a fright.
And it is written, “In kaliyuga, you will be eating out of steel”. My mother used to say, “How is it possible? How can we eat out of steel?” And she could not understand. Eating out of iron. And wearing clothes made from leather. Everyone wears them these days.
And this kind of consumption will create more plastic things, more [UNCLEAR] stuff and what will you do with them? You cannot destroy them, you cannot [UNCLEAR]. So it will reduce our wants. What is the need to keep so many utensils in the house? Stainless steel, our ladies want them a lot. They will arrange twenty-five containers of stainless steel. Mugs they will organize. Ladies just want to go to the stainless steel shop and purchase it, even if you give them a sari.
The same thing is happening with our saris. See the change. See what condition we have reduced it to. Eat in stainless steel, bathe in stainless steel. This time Raolbai brought what you call [UNCLEAR/vessal] of brass. Because whenever I took bath in the stainless steel, you see, I would feel horrid. So she was thinking about why Mother is feeling so horrid after bath. So she got Me brass. Now since bathing in brass, I feel good.
Now brass is half the price of stainless steel. How do you don’t know that? You won’t believe this is our country’s specialty. Stainless steel though made in the factories is double the price of brass. Why? Because we are becoming lazy. We can’t clean the brass bucket. We have three buckets of stainless steel and not even one bucket of (brass). Because it is very prestigious.
I tell you, in our house, we have everything of stainless steel means we are very prestigious. Yes. You won’t believe it, but it is so. That is the joke.
Our value system must change. Our value system has to change. We have to come through vibrations. Have less things in the house, but with better vibrations. All the Sahaja Yogis must know we should give up all these modern items. Stainless steel has no vibrations. Machine-made things have no vibrations. As far as possible, try to reduce machine-made things. Then you will feel self-satisfied also.
If you are [UNCLEAR]. Now it is happening in the West. You won’t believe, once I went to Holland. And my daughters were with me. This is sixty-five [UNCLEAR]. Just listen to this story. 65. In the year 65. And this gentleman told us, “I have an authentic thing; brassware from India. Please come to my house. Please come to [UNCLEAR]”. So we went to his house. And he showed us some surahi (jug) from Muradabad (a local commercial market for metal utensils). Authentic from India. For this he drove us fifty miles, to see that.
[UNCLEAR] Indians, we laugh. And my daughters got very angry. “This madman. How does he say it is authentic?”. “Authentic”. I said, “How?”. “I got a certificate. This is pure brass”. [UNCLEAR]. He told me so many things about it, I was amazed. You are never aware. But for him, it was the most precious thing. But for us, it is not. We have ten stainless steel but not even one brass thing. This is our mentality now, what to do?
Another example I will give. I went to [unclear] place called [UNCLEAR/Krishna?] where I built a house for Mr. Srivastava. There also I [UNCLEAR] the household. I also helped people to make some ceramics. I told them how to make ceramics. They were making the ceramics, and then, you see, I chose some of them which were [unclear/bricks/thick], which were discarded, because for Indians, you see, bricks/thick mean discarded. In the West, you want bricks because you never have any bricks. So, I chose a lot of bricks and kept them with Me in the house.
So my husband said, “What sort of junk do you have in the house? [unclear]”. I said, “You leave it. These are presents for My..” He said, “What? [unclear], foreigners, we have to present this? I can’t believe it. How will they like this [unclear] you have got here”. I said, “Really?”. [unclear].
So, the first time we had the ambassador of Poland. And his wife. And [unclear], they said, “We have heard so much about ceramics in India, where are they?”. Sixty-five, sixty-six [unclear] where are they? We can’t find any good ceramics. Where are they? We can’t find any [slick/thick] ceramics, where are they?”. So I gave them two, which I had purchased, you won’t believe, for one rupee each. Presents, you see.
So, he was so furious with me. They went away. He said, “What do you mean by insulting my guests?”. [unclear/ in their hearts, I could see their faces genuinely/ unclear]. So, when he came to Delhi and went back, he told Me, “I must say, these two persons are as crazy as you are”. I said, “What happened?”. He said, “They came to receive me at the airport. They took me to their house. And they have put it in a case. And they said, ‘These are real pieces of art, we have preserved it here. Which is so great, but we have not told anyone Mrs. Srivastava has given us, because they will feel jealous and then they will ask you. Everybody is asking from where you got this’”. Though my husband was so surprised. He said, “How can anyone be equally crazy as you are”.
So, for us, you have read the story of the Akbari lota (cup) have you not? It is that story. You see, to them, aesthetics are different from [unclear/ours]. And that’s why we must understand what they want. And you must understand [unclear]. For example, they don’t want [unclear/flats]. That’s why I can say that. They don’t want [unclear/flats]. You must know what they want. Even if you had given them huts, I mean, they would have been very happy to live in a hut. I mean, they would have garlanded you for that.
Sahaja Yogi: Next time, we will give them huts.
Shri Mataji: That’s what they want it. But at least give them some bungalows, if not huts. And they are surprised, how did you put them in the horrible blocks? All right, doesn’t matter. This time excused, next time give them some better place like huts.
So, we (Indians) must understand them. In Sahaja Yoga, mutual understanding can take place. With that, we also understand, in advanced countries, what has happened. How their awareness has grown/gone into [unclear]. In the other developing countries, we must find out [unclear/development is needed, on what lines, what balance].
Our ideas are all conceptual, individualistic – we have no idea as to the comprehensive understanding of human nature. It’s just – one nation thinks like this, another nation thinks like that. It’s very surprising.
Now, our Sahaja Yogis, they told Me – they went to buy some records. In London. And all those Gujarati, Punjabi, those young boys – were buying there jazz and this and that. Horrible, cheap English music. All Western music. Cheap, absolutely. And these were going for very difficult ragas. They started looking at them. “Why are you buying this cheap music?”. He said, “What is cheap? Are the same price as that one. Now you say it is cheap. We can’t understand. That this jazz is very cheap”.
You know, now after going to London, I have discovered that in our hotels they used to play the cheapest things you have in English culture. Absolutely cheapest. Cheapest. What you call a labor class servant, low-level music they used to play here. In our great five-star hotels. Yes, if you go and see. Now I realize how they must be laughing at us. When we provided them with this very cheap type of music. But our music is so great, so beautiful. So whatever is great in them, we should take, which is very good [unclear].
So whatever is asked, we preserve and keep and take for them whatever [unclear]. So it is for us to find out. For example, the technical side is very great in them. They have that deftness in their finger of handling the work, the machinery. We are very bad, we don’t know how to maintain our machinery we have [unclear]. So all these great things they have, they can teach us. And whatever we have, we can teach them.
But we have lost all that we have. So now let us come back to our original stuff, let us find out the greatness of each country and try to [unclear]. So we have done very constructive work today. I would like some of you to sit down. Work out some of the projects [unclear]. With the help of the Indian Sahaja Yogis. And I hope when we are here we won’t waste more time now in shopping and get to some work. All right?
[unclear/A Sahaja Yogi is asking about something].
Oh yes. Where is your sari seller? It is cheap for sure. [unclear for a few statements. Shri Mataji asks Pamela something].
Where do you want to see the saris? I will ask somebody to bring them along for you. Quite a lot of them, we can manage them. But for marriage, I must tell all the brides [unclear]. For marriage, don’t buy sanyasi saris. For marriage, you must buy a sari which is suitable for a bride. And not a sari – you can buy any other – which is grey color. We don’t believe in a grey marriage. [unclear]. All right?
Now, why bring something plastic? Bring Me this [unclear] in brass. And give Me food in a brass thali [unclear]. Now you people want [unclear] washing the Feet. How many centers want? Raise your hand.
Sahaja Yogi: Five for Australia.
Shri Mataji: Five. [Unclear for several seconds, Shri Mataji and Sahaja Yogis are talking]. Five. Who wants more? [unclear for almost a minute. Shri Mataji and Sahaja Yogis are discussing the requirements, and sizes for Hands and Feet]. Five, six, seven, eight – put it in five, six, I will get it there.
Five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven. [unclear]. Switzerland. Eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen.
Sahaja Yogi: Any for Australia, for us?
Shri Mataji: Two. No. Gavin, aren’t you taking for London centers? Who other, Scotland? Other [unclear] centers also. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen into five.
Now, David, you want it for Brighton. But Pamela is wanting for what?
Sahaja Yogi: [unclear/name of city].
Shri Mataji: So we put it for that one. So, Australians, five.
Sahaja Yogi: Five and five.
Shri Mataji: So twenty. [To someone in Hindi]. How are you? Are you all right. Feeling sleepy? Please come here.
[The last ten minutes are unclear in several places for several seconds to a minute. There are sounds of items being packed while Shri Mataji talks to Sahaja Yogis and is also discussing an Indian Sahaja Yogi’s situation in Hindi. Audible portions are transcribed below].
Shri Mataji: Now, is there food and drink here?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, for You. For You.
Shri Mataji: For Me? And the others?
Sahaja Yogi: They will go to the flats. Back to their respective homes.
Shri Mataji: What is this?
Sahaja Yogi: This is a special item from Rajasthan.
Shri Mataji: Excellent.
Sahaja Yogi: There was a little but I thought everyone should have it.
Shri Mataji: This is what you have for Sankrant. It is another style. And this sugar? Is he all right now? What do you have to say? Who saw him? David, what do you say.
Sahaja Yogi: Improved Mother. Left side began to come up. Nabhi is not all right.
Shri Mataji: Nabhi is not all right. Do you have a problem – diarrhea or constipation?
Sahaja Yogi: Two times a day.
Shri Mataji: But not loose motion?
Sahaja Yogi: No.
Shri Mataji: Because there is a guru tattwa here. What you have to do, is take leave of your guruji, maharaj. Apply some willpower, because he has got a firm hold of you. They keep you in mesmerism, it is not easy. Apply some willpower and immerse his photo in a river. Because by keeping this, your guru principle has been spoiled. Otherwise, are you feeling alright?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You are looking better. This has been given to correct your guru tattwa. But you have to leave him. You will leave him?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: All right, I am coming over, so come and meet then.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: And left head on [unclear/ground] and right hand outside the window. Light a lamp. And this person who is with you, ask them to move the light seven times around [unclear]. One lamp in front of the photo. One hand towards the photo. Have you brought the lamp? Where is it? Bring it here.
Sahaja Yogi: They are outside.
Shri Mataji: Outside? All right, bring them here.
[Shri Mataji instructs the Sahaja Yogi on how to use light and vibrate salt and sugar]. And keep using that. And just like that your health will improve. And remove that photo. It has a bad effect. It is upsetting your whole stomach.
Sahaja Yogi: Photo?
Shri Mataji: Photo of the Gehra baba.
Sahaja Yogi: It is not there.
Shri Mataji: Nothing. Not his photo.
Sahaja Yogi: Books?
Shri Mataji: Nothing, not photo, books, anything he has given.
Sahaja Yogi: No he does not give anything, he just meditates.
Shri Mataji: They don’t give anything, they just talk.
Another Sahaja Yogi: The whole Void is catching.
Shri Mataji: Yes, the whole Void is catching. Now from tomorrow, you say, “Shri Mataji, I am my own guru”. Left hand towards the photo and other hand out and say, “Mother, I am my own guru”.
Sahaja Yogi: How long should I say this?
Shri Mataji: Till you feel better. In one week you will feel better. You will feel the cool breeze there. For you, “I am my own guru, I am my own guru”. And you have slight right Vishuddhi so talk a little less. For a few days, be quiet, for seven days remain quiet, do not talk much. And left hand towards the photo, right hand there. And then I will meet you. All right? Anything else to talk about? All right? Take care.
And meet Me for sure, no matter what happens. I am there between the 10th and the 14th.
Sahaja Yogi: Where are You?
Shri Mataji: At Sadhana’s house. In Patna.
Sahaja Yogi: Which one? Which area?
Shri Mataji: Sadhana. Rommel’s house.
Sahaja Yogi: All right. I thought Sharda’s house.
Shri Mataji: Rommel’s house.
Sahaja Yogi: There in [unclear].
Shri Mataji: Do come. Raolbai? Please wait. We will give you something very nice. Please wait. Wait outside.
To Raolbai: They are our son-in-law. We cannot send them empty-handed. Otherwise Sadhana [unclear]. Ask them to get something for him.
[To Sahaja Yogi]: Please wait, we are getting something for you.
[End of recording].