Seminar, day 2, conversation with Sahaja Yogis, Deer Park Farm, New York, USA, October 23rd, 1983

So, I have attended to some people individually.
Sahaja Yogi: Right.
Shri Mataji: But not to all; and I would like to attend to some of them later on once we have- Please be seated.
Hello! I didn’t see you last night. I see.
So, now the time has come for us to say goodbye to all of you. And you have to realize how important it is for us, to get Sahaja Yoga settled in America. And that is why, from everywhere, people have arrived to work it out. Now the Americans have to realize their responsibility. I think they have a problem like this: if they have not been to any guru, they have not been anywhere, they have not met anyone like that, then they are not willing to listen to us, in any case. If they have been to some guru, still they are not willing to listen to us.
[Laughter]

Now, if they have suffered with some guru, then only there’s a little thing by which you can creep into their minds, if they have suffered. Otherwise, they are not willing to listen to us. Under these circumstances, it’s rather difficult to work here, very difficult. Americans, I have found to be the most difficult people to handle. And the gurus who are false are very successful. Because, you see, they are very- they appeal to you in a very shallow way, and if that appeal is so attractive that people get enamoured with it and they get lost. But once they start suffering, then they start thinking about it, and they think that all this kind of junk is of no use. But otherwise they go on collecting junks, and quite a lot of junk they collect. Moreover, when they start shifting from one guru to another also, there’s a problem. Because they sufficiently do not suffer from one person, so they go to another and suffer from like that; they go on collecting from everyone some sort of a suffering. And ultimately they end up as a suffered personality, you see, “Les Misérables”.

So, I would request you, all of you, to have patience with them. You have to have tremendous patience. Otherwise, at the very outset, you might give up so many people. So, you have to have patience, this is their background because all the gurus have come here and they’re stationed here. You see, their operation has been very deep-seated. They have come here and stationed here. Others are just, other countries they just visit. But here they are stationed. So, their operations are on, and we have to be rather careful. Not to feel upset or to give them up in our disgust. Because they are seekers, and of very high-quality seekers. Only they have to touch their depth. If they teach [resumption]- if they learn how to touch that depth, you’ll be amazed that they may prove to be very great Sahaja Yogis.

So, you have to be only careful on this point that they are shallow. And they have to be settled down by giving Realization to them. Their concentration is very poor. And you have to put them towards their Kundalini. Ask them to put attention to their Kundalini instead of their Sahasrara. Let them put their attention to their Kundalini first of all. Because at Sahasrara, it’s just the blossoming; but if the Kundalini is so weak, it won’t rise, and there might be one or two threads coming up and again dropping down. So, the practical question is that, “How to make them deep seekers?”

So, ask them to pay attention to their Kundalini as a mother. And ask them to request the mother Kundalini to rise. That, “She is the Mother and she has to rise”. And then the Spirit. And last of all the Sahasrara. Otherwise, it won’t work out. This is what I have found out with so many people who came to see us in the program. Of course, there are some deeper ones also, and they get to Sahaja Yoga in no time. But on the average, what I- my feeling was that they are not yet aware. And they don’t understand that experience is not the same as the – what we call the ‘bodha’, means the experience of the knowledge, or the knowledge of awareness, or knowledge that can be understood through awareness. They think that if there’s somebody can give them just a push or a sensation in the body, then that person is something great. So, they are to be told that, “It has to become your knowledge. It has to become a part and parcel of your awareness “. Otherwise, every such things are of no use.

Then another thing is that they talk of big things. Like, they will say that God is love, so everybody is love. And this will be a very common thing you’ll be facing. Then you have to ask them, “What about Hitler?” Then they’ll understand that there are satanic forces, as well as there is divine Love. If you just say, “All right, God is love, everybody is love, so go and ask a snake to bite you “.

Because they do not have discrimination, that’s why they come out with such theories. If they had sense of discrimination, they would not talk like this. So, this is another great talk, I hear from everyone, that there is Divine in everyone. But how far you can stand them, how far you can bear them, and how far you can raise the Divine is not your problem. You cannot do it. You have no powers to do it. On the contrary, you’ll be lost trying to do that, playing with it.

Thirdly, they cannot understand that you cannot pay, or you cannot have a business, or you cannot depend on the earnings of your God’s work for your living. You have to have your own living. But for your livelihood, you have to do something else, not God’s work. This is the point which is very important, it must be put into their heads properly. And if you can manage that, then they will understand. Because to talk to them is also impossible: they have barriers after barriers.

So it’s, has been a very great experience for Me because this time, first time in America, in these three visits, I’ve really got people who are solidly placed, as far as Sahaja Yoga is concerned.
And I’m very happy and I’m very proud for all those who have come to the seminar and have learned so much about Sahaja Yoga. If you have any questions or any problems, personal, or impersonal, or general, you must write to Me to Gavin’s address or to Surbiton. Best is Gavin’s address, so I get the letters. And even if I don’t send you the answer, never think that I’ve not answered. You’ll find the answer always ready for you. You just you have to bring it to my notice, if you want to bring something to my notice. And it will be very effective.

Why is he crying? Bhima? Bhima! Why do you cry? What?
Sahaja Yogi: He might be short of sleep.
Sahaja Yogi: He needs to sleep.
Shri Mataji: All right, come here. Come here, come here. What happened? What happened? Such a sweet thing like you, why are you crying? There is no need for you to cry.
Bhima! Ah, now smiling. So sweet. I think he wanted to come to Me. They all do like that. Come along. Bhima! Come, come, what happened. What happened, what happened? No, no, no, no, no. No, no, take him, take him, take him. All right, all right. What’s the matter? I thought you wanted to come to Me. Ah? What has happened? Now take the milk. Come along, take the milk.
Baby: Ah.
Shri Mataji: Ah! Yes!
[Laughter]
You wanted to sit there. All right. They are wonderful.

Now, I have some photographs to be given to you. Those who want can come forward. Now, have you any questions, anyone of you?
Gavin: Mother, if there’s any proof that bhoots cause problems, he’s got blisters coming up from his hands now. Absolutely the negativity coming out.
Shri Mataji: Really? Which hand? Better.
Seeker: It comes out?
Shri Mataji: That’s all right? Still hurts?
Seeker: Still, still.
Shri Mataji: Bring some lemons please. Put a lemon on your left side. Better? All right? Better?
Gavin: We have two lemons.
Shri Mataji: Better. Just now, just let them be. The lemons will absorb. It’s already better now, but still, it will be. See, horrible things. Now just see for yourself, “God is love”, and this is love. Now, those who want, [Marathi] Now for your heart, you have to put it like this.
Gavin, let him, let him put it over his heart.
[Shri Mataji distributes the photo] Good. May God bless you.

Bhima?
Now, what about you? Why you were crying?
Sahaja Yogi: Thank you.
Shri Mataji: Pt it on your heart.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: So, I’ll have to talk to you also, talk to you all, to write to people.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Come along.
Sahaja Yogi: Thank you Mother.
Shri Mataji: May God bless you.
It’s better now, much better.

Are you better now?

Hello, how are you? All right? Doing well? Good. We’ll talk now.

Who else? Good.
What about Mr. Kaz? [Unsure]. You have got?
They will, they will absorb. Put it to your hand. Hold it down.

Who else is there? Please come here.

All the children are so sweet.
[Cut in the video]
[Laughter]
Sahaja Yogi: There she is! She is deciding now. She is deciding.
Shri Mataji: Those who will kiss Me only.
Gavin: Is that applied to all of us?
[Laughter]
Shri Mataji: Not with moustaches.
Gavin: I had a shave.
[Laughter]
Shri Mataji: No, still. Those who have grown moustaches cannot kiss Me.
[Laughter]
Gregoire: In this lifetime [speak in French].
Shri Mataji: May God bless you.
Gavin: Ten years too old.
Shri Mataji: You are better now? Good.
How is your husband? Let’s see him.
Sahaja Yogini: He is ready for Seoul [unsure].
Gavin: That’s why [unclear] us sometimes.
Shri Mataji: Is he?
Good. Good. May God bless you.

Now what about you? Come along, better have it. Yes, yes, why not? Everybody is having, so why not have it?
May God bless you.
Sahaja Yogini: You’ve given me two, Mother.
Shri Mataji: All right, so I’ll give you one.
Oh, you came. Competition, all right.
[Laughter]
Did you get one? Everyone?

Gregoire: Mother, with your permission. All the visitors who came here in New York would like to say a big thank to all the East Coast Sahaja Yogis who have organized this seminar. And we have seen Michael turning like a helicopter around. So, perhaps, we could give a hand to Michael, Christine and all of them.
[Applause]
Shri Mataji: Did you take one? Did she get one?
What about you?
Now better. Is it better? Let us see. Put their picture, both hands. Now see in your hands. See how is it? No, no, just see. Still there? Better now. Better. Just hold it again.
Hello!
Baby: Hello!
[Shri Mataji takes the baby on her knees]
Shri Mataji: Hello! Hello!
[The baby smiles. Big laughter]
The mother: Thank you Mother.
You know, she came and told somebody I was trying to help; she said, “Put your eyes like this”. This one. What’s that? Chana.
Chana, I know. You have it in your hand now. Come on. Give it to everyone. Go. Give to everyone. Now you give it to everyone.

That’s the one for you. And you’d better not get any [unclear].
Give it to him, give it to Gregoire. That’s the most needed one. To Gregoire. Give it to him.

Children have them. Did you take one?
Now. Any other questions?

Any other questions?
Sahaja Yogi: No questions.
Shri Mataji: Ah?
[To the photograph] Good idea. From this side it’s OK.
Gregoire: They could all sit before You, and we go at the end.

Shri Mataji: Now. All right. They should be there, it’s a nice thing. Now, if there is no question, they would request you, all of you, to sit down around Me here and let them take one photograph.

Sahaja Yogi: Could we have one question, Mother? There seems to be some confusion, there seems to be some confusion between elders about the left and right hemispheres. Where the –
Sahaja Yogi: The left Swadishthana and the right Swadishthana.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Ah?

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, do You remember I asked You some time ago in Austria I think it was, or Switzerland, about the places of these, the different chakras on the head? And left Swadishthana is here, right Swadishthana is here. And right. Vishuddhi is here, left Vishuddhi is here, like this. In other words, it’s only at Sahasrara that there is the crossing, is that correct?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. Just above. Above. No, no, you see, the thing is, the Agnya is higher here, becomes higher than the Swadishthana, so the crossing takes place lower- higher. So, that’s why left Swadishthana expresses itself here [in the Back Agnya].
Sahaja Yogi: Where, Mother?
Shri Mataji: Left Swadishthana expresses itself here…
Sahaja Yogi: On the right side, Mother?
Shri Mataji: No, sorry, sorry. Left here [in the Back Agnya], right here.
Sahaja Yogi: Left Swadishthana on the left side? And left… left Nabhi on the left side also?
Shri Mataji: Left Nabhi, you see, is here. [On the top of the head, a bit behind].
Yogis: On the left side. On the left.
Shri Mataji: On the left side. Both the Nabhis are.
Gregoire: The other question, Mother, because there was some, my understanding is that You said that Russia was left Agnya and China right Agnya. Is that [correct]?
Shri Mataji: Oh, no. No, no. No, no, no. You see, it’s the other way round, how can it be? I think it’s seen in their way of behaviour. Like, China is –
Gregoire: All the first psychology is left Agnya.
Shri Mataji: Now, that’s the trouble. It’s a trouble with Germany also.

Gregoire: Russia is right Agnya and China left?
Shri Mataji: But they get entangled. Now China is becoming the rightest and Russia is becoming the leftest, what to do.
Gavin: Entangled.
Shri Mataji: That’s what I… So if you say that “What is right Swadishthana?” It’s Germany. But Germany is all attacked, is full of bhoots now. So, I don’t know what to say. I mean, only human beings can be like that.
All parapsychology, everything Russia has taken. So what can you do? I mean, this is the trouble with them. I think egoistical people always take to such things. Because they think they’ll have higher powers. And then they get enslaved in that. That’s why in America, why so much of parapsychology, this thing is, because they thought they’ll have higher powers, you see. It’s a power game. But they don’t know these are the spirits. They get enticed with it. You can’t decide. I mean, you cannot say, but the actual, basic nature is that.
Sahaja Yogi: Right Agnya, Russian people.
Shri Mataji: Very aggressive. Extremely aggressive Russians are. I mean, they don’t want to sit tight in their own places. They want to go to Afghanistan, the want to go here, they want to go there; I don’t know why shouldn’t they sit in their own places.
Gregoire: Now, yes, Mother. Historically, they were always attacked first.
Shri Mataji: They always attacked?
Gregoire: They were always attacked first. They never attacked first, the Russians.
Shri Mataji: No, but you see-
Gregoire: They were attacked first by the Swedish, by…
Shri Mataji: No, no, the tsars were there. You see, this is something, I’ll tell you, what is tsar system and all that. They are very aggressive people. Always aggressive.
Gregoire: Well, then I got it from-
Shri Mataji: Aah, you misunderstood. Left Agnya. Because China was always, you know, they had this opium thing, this, that. Even to- China was, Mao, what he did was nothing but left Agnya.
Gregoire: Conditioned people.
Shri Mataji: Very much conditioned. Now they are getting out American influence. Mixture. Forget about them.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, I have a question. When You were at the lecture, and the Russians came in and You said, “Go out!” — at what point do You think that that is a responsible?
Shri Mataji: What?
Sahaja Yogi: When is that responsible behaviour for someone like me, for example, I’m just- if people come to me, let’s say.
Sahaja Yogi: When do we know where to draw a line with.
Sahaja Yogi: When do You know to, when to assume that responsibility?
Shri Mataji: Gradually you will learn. You see, just now I would not say that this mud and all that. But like, as a gardener knows where to nip the thing, the root, in the same way. Gradually you’ll know when to stand up and say something.
[Laughter]

All right? Everything is depending on your growth. When you start growing, you exactly know what to do when. It’s a question of growth. You see, like a little child now, she doesn’t know how even to hold the bowl. When you grow, you know how to handle it. You are not to be told then, isn’t it? It’s like that. It’s a question of growth. I mean, simple thing like, you are on a bicycle. First you fall, these things happen. We always say, “When do we think that we are balanced?” When you are balanced.
[Laughter]
That’s the only answer.

Sahaja Yogi: Vishuddhi children, Mother. [Unclear]
Shri Mataji: You know, for the time being, you should just grow. You don’t have to protect Me. I know how to manage.
[Laughter]
All right? Only that’s the thing makes people very upset because they can’t bear anybody insulting Me. But don’t you worry. It’s very serious for those who insult Me, and there will be trouble. You don’t worry on that. Actually, I just go on saying, “[Baba], God save them!” That’s all. Now. So now, individually, where should I sit? In My room? Will that be all right? So, I say goodbye to you and thank you very much. You must grow up in your awareness and Realization and become masters. This is My blessing to all of you. You all have to be masters of Sahaja Yoga. Every individual. It’s not that, “My husband is doing” or “My wife is doing”. It’s you, alone. Every individual has to become the master. First master yourself. If you are dominated by your bad habits, or your own problems, and your own hankerings, then you must know you are not yet a master. Then master Sahaja Yoga. By that, you’ll master everyone.
May God bless you.

I’ll be always be at your beck and call, whenever you ask Me. May God bless you. May God bless you.
[Hindi conversation]
Please come. Take the chana here.
Gregoire: Who takes the picture then?
Sit down. All of you has to sit down.
[Sahaja Yogis speak at the same time]
Photograph is to be taken.
Gregoire: I don’t get the right angle.
Sahaja Yogi: Somebody has the right angle.
Gregoire: I’ll try to see. Sorry, Mother.
Gavin: You move the camera [towards the Sahaja Yogis sitting]
Shri Mataji: Aah! What an idea!
Gregoire: Someone take one with this one.
Sahaja Yogi: You want me to take it.
[Unclear conversations between Sahaja Yogis]
Shri Mataji: She just remembers.
[Laughter]

Sahaja Yogi: Nick, you want to come in front so that we take your photograph.
Shri Mataji: What’s the problem?
Sahaja Yogi: What’s the problem with the cameras?
[Laughter]

Sahaja Yogi: OK, I think that’s enough.
Shri Mataji: We’ve done now?

Sahaja Yogi: Jai Mataji. Thank you.
Sahaja Yogi: So, let’s all be historical.
[Conversations about transport]

Indian Sahaja Yogi: We sincerely thank Mataji through the bottom of our heart for spending time with us for last one and a half month and doing the, such a big work whatever She is doing. Such a magnanimous work She is doing. I hope all of you Americans will join me.
Sahaja Yogi: All of us.
Sahaja Yogi: And everyone who is not here also.
Sahaja Yogi: And anyone who is not here joins me in expressing our heartfelt thanks, gratitude to dear Mother.

[Applause]
Shri Mataji: Thank you very much. So, these last moments are terrible. So many children to be left here, in America, look after them.
All right, those who want to see Me now, individually, can come to my home.
Sahaja Yogi: At least we are not orphans, Mother.
End of video.