1998-07-26 Interview Italy
Emotional… He’s a very good son of mine and I am very proud of him. He is really well spiritually [Unclear grown]. And he wants you all to share my love also. It’s very kind of him to have invited Me [UNCLEAR] and it’s very kind of you all to be here, present.
[unclear Make something?]… to these people.
I’ve come to tell you that within you lies the peace, tranquillity and a very beautiful spiritually life.
But as Christ has said ‘’You are to be born again’’. But you have to ask for it, nobody can force, nor can you pay for it. In these modern times it is your birthright to have your second birth, birthright. For even which you don’t have to do any [UNCLEAR first]. You don’t have to stand on your head, you don’t have to go to the Himalayas. It is a very spontaneous happening that takes place. Within you lies the power, who is your individual Mother, your own Mother and she knows everything about you, she knows what mistakes you have committed also she knows your aspirations. And as your Mother has given you your birth in the same way She gives you a very beautiful rebirth.
So you get the real baptism.
Which we call as sacrum that means the Greeks knew it was a sacrum bone also Indians knew about it very much. And there were two saints who travelled all over the world. They went to Ukraine and also went to Russia and also Bolivia, which is so far off. And they have told them. They have told them about this that there is a power within you. I was surprised even Chinese know about it. This is a power which is within you, in coils. Three and a half coils. Now, so supposing this instrument is not connected to the mains, it doesn’t work. It has no identity. This is how, unless you are until you are connected this all pervading power, you have no identity. I have found many of your young people are trying to find the truth because they think a lot of falsehood around. But you cannot find it outside, it is within. So when this Kundalini rises, when this power rises, it passes through six centres. And these centres are responsible for our physical, mental, emotional and spiritual being. So all
Strings them together and completely integrates you then you cannot feel disturbed because your mind, your attention and your heart are intune. Now the truth is that you are not this body, this mind, these emotions, your ego but you are the pure spirit. Another truth, just watch these beautiful trees, you see how they have grown spontaneously also today I was watching those sheds and what colours its has, who does all that. If you ask the driver – doctor who runs your heart, he will say it’s an autonomous nervous system. But who is this auto? That they can’t answer, they be humble I must admit, we can’t answer. So this is an all-pervading power of Divine Love. Christ has described, everybody has described this power of Divine lOve also the disciplines called it the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost. So unlimitley this power pierces through your Fontanelle bone area here and connects you to this subtle power of all pervading power. That is the real baptism and you really get connected and then you start feeling a cool breeze flowing through your hands. It is a happening, it is an experience. It is not a sermon or is not a lecture and you become a very different person. Firstly you get relaxed because you find of you your problems are taking over by this all pervading power then you become a person who is absolutely peaceful. Now how it happens, now supposing you are standing in the waves of the ocean and you don’t know how to swim, then you are frightened. In the same way, thoughts start rushing into your head, one after another, some come fro the future, some come from the past. But you are not in the present but in the present is the reality so when kundalini rises She longgates the thoughts and spaces created in between. That is the present, that is the reality. And you become thoughtlessly aware.
You are thoughtless but aware, much more aware. A great psychologist, Yung had described. First he was involved with this guru, Freud but then he gave it up. And he also said it was Mother’s Power, loving power. Now we do not know how much this power loves you, how it looks after you, protects you and guides you. Once you become a person who is call it, self realised or reborn you really start feeling all along.
In Italy, I must say that Italy is a place for spirituality because people are loving, they love there Mother and they love their children. In the whole of Europe, Italians have a speciality, thats why I’ve got a house in Italy, to settle down here for six months – six months I’m here and six months in India. Of course you can say there are problems but they will all sort of very soon you will see. All bad people will be caught. This can be worked out very fast, no problem.
Any questions…uh what will happen….if they feel shy.
Guido – Is for you.
Shri Mataji: Her husband is the chairman of the [UNCLEAR shipping] corporation.
[CUT BUT IT CONTINUES]
And the daughter, the grand daughter is graduating in America. So I have two daughters are four grandchildren but the family system improves when you get your self realisation because you become so loving and you start appreciating the love of others. This love doesn’t have any selfishness behind it, nothing expected. It’s pure love. So this happening your health improves, your physical being improves. We have now a hospital in India, a big hospital for Sahaja Yoga that people go to from all over the world without paying for the medicines or anything they get [UNCLEAR]. They are cured of cancer and all kinds of incurable diseases. Also they become very creative so many musicians from India have become World famous. Also they have become a great artists because the Divine Love appreciates and gives power to create. Actually the person becomes very balanced and with this power of understanding it becomes a very good, I should say [UNCLEAR] of knowledge. I have seen students who where good for nothing suddenly started [UNCLEAR] in their class. And they become very loving in the family and they are very kind to others.
Overnight people have given up alcoholism and also what you call that drug addiction. I’m going to start a centre for drug addiction children becuase Italians told me that drugs are the biggest problems. And I would like you people to send your children to this centre where if they are taking drugs.
And you don’t do something like that. You give up all bad habits and you become an absolutely a fresh person. Also there is no need to go to a beauty parlour to look young, you look young anyway.
…they are very soft, my whole body, nothing working, vibrations, light.
And just enjoy every one. And I never feel the pressures because you become like a witness. Now if you are seeing a drama, you think you are the hero or maybe a [UNCLEAR] and you start getting involved with it. But as soon as the drama is over, you find you are just a witness and not in the drama. This is how you see yourself and you are no more worried, upset or disturbed or stressed.
In Russia we have many, many Sahaja Yogis and there are a set of scientists, very famous. Stalin was very fanatic, through them out of Russia in a place called [UNCLEAR]. So they joined together and worked out many things, especially about auras. Now this particular gentleman is a physicist who works with the light, he had never met me, he was not a Sahaja Yogi. He’s about sixty one years, I think. And they showed him, My photographs. I have some photographs, I mean many photographs I should say. Where you see lights coming out of Me, around Me, all kinds of things. Out of My whole body. But normally we did not show any except Sahaja Yogis. Now he saw them and he said ‘’I’ve got through the library of Mataji’s photographs, one photograph was when I was in India, this last centre I opened on the 5th of May.
So I celebrate that day on the 5th of May. But the Italians said ‘’Mother, we celebrate on a sunday, it was saturday so we celebrate and go on a… and go on a boat’’. I said all right and they hired a boat and hired a photographer for me. So I was sitting in the boat and at the same time in India when I opened this thing, at the same time a lot of light started coming out of My [head] – lots. And he photographed that. He didn’t see it but he was photographing it. And then that light started spreading all over and My face became like three faces. And the fourth face on the head, fourth face, very subtle. So then that light started radiating all sides like this.
So the gentleman, the photographer had negatives, when he took them to the shop, you see, the Gentleman said ‘What is this?! What is wrong with your camera?’. Only the bench on which I was sitting was, can be seen – bench. Also another photograph he had when he saw My whole body, nothing but vibrations, light. And then you see, there was one photograph where taken in London which is shown – I couldn’t understand hearts, hearts, hearts, hearts, hearts here. I said that is the time, they were singing a song in London, Sitting in the Heart of the Universe. So he asked Me, later on in the interview. Does this power also listen and understand? You see, of course I was his [UNCLEAR thing] so he called this [UNCLEAR thing] also. Now here the lecture was so good, so maybe he got it translated the lecture but he said theres lots of [UNCLEAR]. I’m coming to Cabella and I’m going to write a complete book about it. Because he has got all formalic, this and that in a typical way. And he said that Mother you are the source of [UNCLEAR]. I said that is not cosmic because cosmic only means material, it is Divine Love. He said –
Of course, that would be very good… that he also tell about his experience.
Guido: He said already.
Shri Mataji: You said it! I must learn Italian.
Guido: He said it before you came.
Shri Mataji: Oh before I came!
As I said you don’t have to pay, it is your own right, you have got it within you. You, please don’t criticise yourself. And you don’t have to feel guilty. I want to tell you that you have done nothing wrong . You shouldn’t feel guilty at all. If you feel guilty then this side of the centre, of this centre (Vishuddhi) goes out of [UNCLEAR gear]. As a result you may develop Angina of the heart or you may develop spondylitis of a very serious nature so not to feel guilty. And in the western life there are so many funny, funny [UNCLEAR knobs]. For example if you put the spoon like this, fork like this, it’s like a sin. It’s not important at all, what is important is what’s in your heart.
So the second thing you have to do is to forgive everyone! Now many people say it’s very difficult to forgive but logically whether you forgive or don’t forgive, what do you do? You do nothing! But if you don’t forgive then you play into wrong hands – play into the hands of the people who have troubled you or maybe tortured you, anything against you. Best thing is to forgive. So that it is not your job anymore. With that you will be amazed – this centre (Agnya) which is the crossing point of the optic [UNCLEAR] in the brain. Which is a very, very constricted centre but if you just feel and say that Mother I forgive everyone, just like that it will open up. These are the only conditions for you. It’s very easy to give you this experience with this open air and open [UCNLEAR] But one thing which will take help of the Mother earth and so we have to take out the shoes, that’s all. You not need take off the socks but just the shoes.
Shoes off – only italian spoken
Italians are very sensible. First time in England when I said that half of them walked off. So it is very simple, now be pleased with yourself, be pleasant to yourself. You actually have to love yourself in a way. You have to respect yourself because you are human beings and you are seekers of truth. As I love you, you have to love yourself. Very simple here.
Now you have to put both the hands towards Me, like this. Just on your lap, on your lap. Just like this – very comfortable.
Hands on lap – only italian spoken
…On the left hand side for emotional. Same one the right hand side, they are for the physically and the mental [UNCLEAR]. The left side is for the left sympathetic and the right is for the right sympathetic.
Now you put your left hand towards Me and right hand towards Me, both the hands for a while here. Now put the right hand towards Me only and put the left hand on top of your Fontanelle bone area, it was a soft bone area in your childhood. On top, not away from the head but not on top like this but little away, little away. Now move your hand and see for yourself if there is a cool or a hot breeze like thing coming from your Fontanelle bone area – little higher, little higher. Little higher, you can bend your head, could be better. You…
Now if it is hot that means you have not forgiven others. So forgive yourself and forgive others. Now put the left hand towards Me, now on the right hand see yourself, a cool or a hot breeze coming out of your Fontanelle bone area. Now again once more only put the left hand.
Out of your head, out of the fontanelle bone, the soft bone in your childhood. They just started. Now put your hands like this towards Me.
… you can become thoughtless.
Now, see if the both the hands from both the hands if you are getting a cool breeze or a hot breeze. Some of them might get it from down below like this, so you take them up like that, some of you might. Now all those who have felt cool or hot breeze on their palm or on their fingertips or out of their fontanelle bone area, raise your hands. Both the hands.
May God bless you all. May God bless you all. Meditation you have to do in the evening about ten minutes just to grow. So you can all can give realisation to others, you can give realisation. And you might feel very much on top of the world but thats not sufficient, you have to grow, you have to know everything about it. Thank you very much.
I was very young, about seven years of age and I went to with my brothers, father and mother to meet him (Gandhi). So Gandhiji said to My father that you have so many children, why didn’t you give [UNCLEAR]. So my father said you can have anyone. So Gandhiji picked me up and then I used to always go for my three months holiday and stay with him. He was a very disciplined person and he used to discipline everybody. We had to get up at four o’clock and go for worship. And in that place it was like a jungle where there was a lot of snakes also. But he told nobody will bite and when we were sitting praying, we used to see sometimes [snakes] crawling. The snakes never bit. But he had realised about Me that I was something spiritual. So we, he wrote his hymns which need to be sung. He asked Me to help him. So I told him that you have to use this way the Kundalini rises, the different – and see these different chakras. And he added, he added absolutely. Sometimes he used to be very angry, he wouldn’t make his orange juice. But I finally told him, I’m a little girl and he always used to sit with Me. And whenever I went to see him, he used to get up, rise, rise.And so many times I’ve seen him, talking to him. He said first we must get our independence then only you should start your sahaja yoga and give realisation to people.
And also I met another prime minister, our prime minister [UNCLEAR]. He could recognise Me. My father also was a very great realised soul. And he was a criminal lawyer and he told me about human beings, what they are. And now they indulge in self destructive forces. So I should say he was in a way he was my teacher as far as human beings were. But he was extremely generous, a very kind person, very, very kind. So with Gandhiji my experience was that he was very loving to children but very strict with the adults. I used to argue with him, I said why are you so strict?
The problem of India is that we had these british in our country for three hundred years! Without any visa and they completed lynch us. That’s how they started there social security, this, that. So actually when they left, we were just bankrupt. Also they created problem with Pakistan and this and that. Both the countries are very, very poor, Pakistan and Bangladesh – very poor. In India there is a problem because of poverty but it is improving now, much better, it is improving. But I think that at the same time in the West we have child abuse and all kinds of things. Killing the children in America is horrible. In India we don’t understand what is this, child abuse we can’t understand, we can’t understand homosexuals. And the other day, our [unclear] came and he was telling me about this wife who was very, very tense. So he said Mother when you touch her she was very relaxed but again after a while she became very tense. And she goes on shouting at me, I said Indian women are very relaxed because men have to work outside so they are tense but not women. So he said because of tradition, we are brought up that way and that’s how we make a good family. Wherever you’re poor or rich or anything, you love your children. And this kind of thing doesn’t take place, doesn’t come into our heads, we don’t understand and the relationships are pure. Recently I heard horrible news that a lady of fourteen years or sixteen years got a child from her brother, her own brother.
With Sahaja Yoga you understand your relationships with everyone and enjoy that relationship, no problems, no problems. In Sahaja Yoga now even in Italy we never have problems, this man running after that woman, that woman running after that man, nothing of it. And the women are very relaxed and happy and men are also relaxed and happy. Actually marriage is to be enjoyed , it’s the love between both of them has to be like a nectar. So, you see I was told that there’s no book in England where there is romance after marriage, no book. In India all novels are describing the love after marriage, not before.
Question from the crowd (italian) 00:59:25
Shri Mataji: See that is a political question, not a spiritual question. If I ask you about your government what would you say. So I’m not here to list those qualities. But actually you see in this, not of money but we had some of these missiles already made up, long time back. But they want to proceed if they are working or not and they took it into – what do you call? A desert, where nobody was hurt. Just to see if it is working or not. It was not that money was spent but it was there already.
Question to Shri Mataji
It’s this I cannot understand because we don’t have it in India, we have other nonsense, not this because God has created everybody different. I mean in India we can have – I am quite fair, I was much more better and my youngest brother is really dark. So how can I hate my brother because he is dark. It’s only a question of ego. Now you go to the sea to become brown but if someone born with the brown skin, you don’t like him. It’s all skin deep problem.
Question about Christ
He is very great. He’s very very great. Without him I could not have done this job. He opened the Agnya chakra. On the cross, on the cross of [unclear]. He was a special divine personality. He had to crucify himself to cross this (Agnya) and He did that. Because of that I can open this (Agnya chakra) and what he has said on the cross that ‘Oh God forgive them for they do not know what they are doing’. So that’s why I asked you [to] forgive, to open this centre. He is the loveliest, the best [unclear] incarnation we have of the divinity.
Question, your opinion of the Catholic Church and the Pope?
You, yourself, know what I should tell you.
Question from the crowd. Separation between the west and the east culture.
Whatever good of a culture has to be taken. Good. Which has done good to you. For now in India we have horrible caste system because at first it was not like that. According to whatever work you are doing [unclear] what work you are doing. But gradually it became whatever family you are born that is your caste. It’s wrong. We had one system where the wife didn’t like to be a widow so she choose burn herself [unclear away]. It’s all a [unclear] system. Which they change. So many things we had wrong, they change that. They have these [unclear forms….] But you can’t change religion because we have no organised religion. It’s the religion of the self and we are brought up so traditionally so we know what is bad and what is good. One very good student from India went to [UNCLEAR temptation] and told me, they don’t know what is wrong and what is right and they think it’s an adventure. Because we had such a well [UNCLEAR] family, we know what is wrong, what is good. I’ll show an example, a simple example. One girl was married in France and she told me the French men are funny. I said what happened? They go in the sun and go back and take water directly. In India we will never do that, eat some biscuit or something and then take water.
Say after eating any fruit, you see, any fruit. You are not supposed to take water, you have to take some carbohydrates they don’t know. Like after coffee they take ice cream, I mean I am shocked. No, this, all people know it, even Pakistani, even Bangladeshi’s everybody knows this shouldn’t be done for our health. Another simple thing I’ll tell you, I hope you don’t mind, after eleven o’clock you should never sit in the sun. Never, never, [UNCLEAR]. They don’t say [UNCLEAR Cancer it is]. No means no.
Now we had some people in India, Italy, from all over and I told them at eleven o’clock we should come back, don’t sit in the sun. So they didn’t listen to Me, they had such big, big blisters all over their bodies. And there were some Doctors who rushed to Me and said what to do? [UNCLEAR] or something. The Indians [Inaudible]. I said all right I’ll cure them, I took a little water in cotton and I just put it on them and it all subsided. But still the hit was inside so I said all right you take my sarees, I had cotton sarees, cover yourself up and then tomorrow you can return the saree. So they dry cleaned the sarees and thanked Me for folding. And I went to my brother’s place you see and the sarees had such big, big holes all over, all over the sarees. It was so [UNCLEAR different], you see it’s the prove, the prove. The sun is good but can be very bad after eleven o’clock.
(Italian – thanking and if She can say some nice words)
Shri Mataji: That’s very kind of you to have said. What I have to say that there is an all-pervading power of divine love. So you have to give up your worries. Your fears. Also your anger, just it happens, you can’t do it. And enjoy each other, it’s pure love. Italians are very, very close to it and I really bless you from my heart. That after this you will enjoy yourself fully. So may God Bless you.
Shri Mataji: We have so many sahaja yogis everywhere.
Yogi: Especially in Italy, especially in Italy everywhere…. Since you are here in Italy.
Shri Mataji: I just can’t understand but the special thing about [Italians], they have a large heart. Italians have a large heart and more heart qualities. And I don’t think they are so much money oriented [like] Americans. Americans are the worst.