Public Program Day 1

Adelaide (Australia)


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Public Program 1. Adelaide (Australia), 5 March 1983.

I bow to all seekers of truth.

These are the special times when so many seekers are born all over the world. We are not aware as to the nature of this time, when we get so much worried, anxious and upset with so many things happening around us and we do not find any answer to it. Sometimes if you read some of the books which give all the datas about what is expected of human beings many people have now, I think, accepted the ultimate doom and they think that after all the doom has to come so why worry. Even Mohammad Sahib has talked about the doomsday but much more than that he has talked about the days of resurrection. They all have talked about the future, the day of judgement, the day of resurrection. When is this going to happen and how it is going to happen? We have to first of all know that why are we seekers and what are we seeking? When I said that you are the seekers of truth we have to find out first of all what is the truth, and for that finding out we have to just use some logic, we have to come to some logical conclusion.

Now the first thing one must know that we have become human beings from amoeba stage. We have come to this stage with a purpose, it is not purposeless. But why have we become a human being? There must be some purpose and if this purpose has to be served it will be served not by some sort of an outward happening but something inward has to happen to our awareness. Like animals do not have any awareness of cleanliness, of beauty, but human beings have. In the same way when we become a higher personality we have to have something happening, happening again I say, to our awareness. And for this I would say Jung has done lot of work, Jung who opposed Freud very much and he said that if man has to evolve little higher than what he is he will achieve his own goal and according to him also the goal of man is to become collectively conscious. So even the scientists, the psychologists have prepared the stage for our ascent. Even Darwin who did not believe in God but he did say that, ” If man has come so far he has to go still further somewhere at his destination.” Even he would not accept a situation or a proposition in which one has to say that there is no purpose of nature in creating human beings.

The second conclusion we have to come to very logically, understandingly, is that the process of evolution has been done by the living force of life. It’s not done by something which is dead. Like supposing we read the book it’s all dead work or if we stand on our heads or do any such things we don’t create anything. Living thing can be understood from, living process can be understood from a living thing. Like if you have got a seed and it looks like a dead thing but you put it in the mother earth then it starts sprouting by itself, spontaneously. How it happens, why it happens we can’t explain, but it does. You see for yourself that it happens and that kind of a living force has worked out your evolution without your knowledge but now in your knowledge it has to happen. That’s the only difference between the evolutionary process so far and further, and because it has to be in your knowledge you are given complete freedom to choose either the ascent or the descent.

And when you come to this right conclusion that it has to be done through some living process then you must understand another point that you cannot pay for it, not a single pi. Because this is something very difficult for human beings to understand that you can get something without paying but you are getting something. You get the sun’s rays without paying for it. Everything, this pay business and all, this economic activity has been started by human beings alone. It’s not done by God and perhaps God never understands money at all but is all done by human beings and also they want to bring in God into the same pattern and say that you can sell God. You cannot organise God and you cannot sell God. So another conclusion we have to reach that we cannot purchase God or His Divine Power, this has to be brought to us spontaneously. Means that we cannot sort of work it out ourselves, it’s some sort of a grace or we can say a force that has to work it and when that grace works it out we can become a higher personality as we have become higher personality so far.

Now this grace about which people have talked that there is an all-pervading power everywhere and this all-pervading power is doing every living work. Like again I say when the living process where we see a flower becoming a fruit, thousands and thousands flowers we see are becoming fruits. How do they become? They become spontaneously, but how? A flower just becomes a fruit, we take it for granted. Now the thing is, this all-pervading power is everywhere, is everywhere, and that pervading power does this living job everywhere. Not only that it makes a flower into a fruit but also it decides which flower has to become what fruit. It decides, it co-ordinates, it arranges, it organises and it loves. So this power we have to feel. We never feel it, we see only nothing but the breeze blowing but we don’t see any power being existing in this atmosphere. The reason is this power is subtler for our feelings, we cannot feel it, is the frequency of this power we cannot feel. “So how are we to feel this power?” is the first question should come logically into our head. There must be something more must happen to us we have to become subtler personality to feel that power.

Now this becoming is the knowledge of the roots, is not the knowledge of the tree. Whatever we have achieved through our mental projections or all discoveries and everything we have done about nature, is we have put them in the books and all that is nothing but the knowledge of the tree. But this tree is sustained by the roots and these roots are sustaining this great tree which is growing, but if this tree doesn’t look after its roots a day will come that it is going to be destroyed. And that’s why people are frightened that this creation is going to be destroyed now, it’s just on the verge of destruction. Even the human beings who are the epitome of great evolution have done nothing in totality if you see the science has advanced more towards destruction than towards construction. It has constructed few things, all right, but in a whole way supposing you construct the whole house very beautifully, make everything beautifully and decorate it nicely and then you put a big bomb underneath it. That’s what we have done out of science. We have created all these nice things and then we have got this hydrogen bomb, this bomb, that bomb, planted on all the sites that if a button is pressed the whole thing can collapse whatever we have created with such difficulty. So look at the stupidity of our endeavour, our enterprise, the way we have worked it out that in totality we are just facing our own destruction through our own mental projection.

So the other thing that has to happen to us in our realization is that we find out a method by which we understand the constructive side of life. Anything done without the Spirit in it, without God’s grace in it, leads you to destruction. Even the elements can get upset with such a society and can start destroying such societies but if the elements do not take over it is only the same societies which are trying to elevate a society to higher level themselves turn back upon themselves and start destroying it. Because there are no moorings for us, there are no roots, because this kite which is flying has lost its attachments. The attachment has to be to the Spirit.

Shri Krishna has said that “Yogakshema (spelling ? sounds like – na me hum u hum) that you get your ‘yoga’, means ‘union with the Divine’. Once you get union with the Divine then I look after, “I look after yogashema” means, “I look after your well-being”, is said by Shri Krishna. But he doesn’t say that first I will look after yogakshema and then you get your yoga it’s the other way round, you have to take to your yoga. Now the right conclusion about yoga we should find out what is yoga. Now many people think that doing hatha yoga, which is just a little bit of standing on your head business, is yoga. It is not. It is very commonly said, “I am doing my yoga”. I mean you can’t ‘do’ yoga you have to be ‘in’ yoga. ‘Yoga’ means ‘union with the Divine’ and this happens to you, it just happens to you by which you become connected with your Spirit, what Christ has said is the rebirth, we are to be born again. But human beings are so much deceptive to themselves, they deceive themselves so much that I have known people that when I went to America I told them that you have to be born again and all that. After that some of them started an organisation called as Born Again and they just self-certified themselves that, “We are born again.” But I mean how can you certify yourself as born again when you haven’t got the qualities, the capacities and the powers of a twice-born personality?

Now we have to understand also that if it is going to be a new birth, a transformation must take place within us. We must have a transformation. But you’ll find that all efforts people have put it in of conditioning, giving puritanical ideas and doing all sorts of things it has not been able to give people transformation. It has not led to any transformation. On the contrary, their addictions to all kinds of habits, addiction to all kinds of thoughts and also enslavement to all sorts of conditioning has not at all vanished. In some way or other if they are communists, they become capitalists, if they are capitalists they become communist. You see from one to another you are going into some sort of an ism, ism, ism, ism.

But in Sahaja Yoga there is nothing like this because you are only human beings, only human beings in the eyes of God. He has created variety he has created one variety of say, Australians, then in Australia also he has created so many varieties as you have so many flowers we have so many human beings. But inside every flower flows this vital force of God’s love and that vital force is to be understood through going into the roots not from outside through your mental projection. Actually through your mental projection how far can you go? Because it’s a limited brain that you are using to understand a problem but you have to go to the unlimited. If it is so, something has to trigger it, your ascent, into that space where it is unlimited and that’s why we have to know that through only logical conclusion we can come up to the door but afterwards you have to enter through this door through that triggering otherwise you cannot enter into it.

Now whatever he has told you all about these chakras you need not believe as Dr Warren has told you. There’s no need to believe into it because even if you have blind faith it’s not going to help us. But as a scientist you must keep your mind open and you must accept this as a hypothesis placed before you. Now this hypothesis if it is proved right you have to accept it as a law, the Divine law. Now this hypothesis is that you have got all these seven centers within you and you have got the power called as the Kundalini placed in the triangular bone.

Now one may say that this is a Sanskrit word and Sanskrit is not for only Indians it is for all of us. As English language is for all of us, in the same way Sanskrit is also for all of us. But only thing I would say, that as the west was more busy, and you though you are on the east but still I call it the west, busy with the advancement outside, there were people who were busy with the advancement down. And these people are the seers who have seen that there is a power which is settled down in the triangular bone called as sacrum. Now this is a Greek word. It is very interesting to know that sacrum means sacred. And I asked the Greeks when I went to Greece I asked them, “Why do you call it sacrum?” They said that, “Most of these words have come to us because we have had a very long rapport with the Indo-Aryan groups.” “So when was that?” They said, “It was much before Alexander went to India.” So we knew about India long time back and the Indians told us that this is a sacred bone. Even doctors know that when the whole body burns this bone does not burn. It takes lot of temperature, very high temperature to burn this bone and when you put it in the cremation this thing and all that, that has to brought to a very high temperature so that this bone should burn but with other temperatures, lower temperatures, the whole body may burn but this bone will remain still unburned. So the reason is there is this power which is protecting it.

Now this power is called as Kundalini because it has got three and a half coils within it. You might have read some of you, being seekers, you must have read books about Kundalini and everywhere I go people tell me that, “Mother we have heard that this is a very dangerous thing to have the Kundalini awakened and it’s very, very wrong to touch it.” Now this is something absurd. First of all this is the only way you are going to get your realisation. Is the primule, is the germ within you, the germinating power within you which is going to give you the ascent and how can that be a thing that will be dangerous for you. There must be something wrong. For example, I don’t understand about this instrument or about electricity. I’ll put my both the fingers in the plug and I get a shock and I say, “Oh, it’s the most dangerous thing that you can have,” that means I don’t know how to handle it.

But Kundalini when She is said to be troubling people it is never the Kundalini but this first centre of innocence which gets into annoyance and when it gets into annoyance it sends lot of heat in the body and that heat is felt in the body by so many people. When people who have no authority from God Almighty, we can say, those who are not holy people, those who are making money in the name of God, those who are people with very bad characters who have no possibility of even taking the name of God such people when they try these tricks it happens to you that you feel that tremendous heat in the body. One must know that heat is not a sign of spirituality. Everywhere, whether is in Sanskrit or any language, they have said that it’s a cooling, it cools you down. Even a person you say, “He’s cool minded”, means he’s not violent. Now in science if you try to cool down the helium gas they, you’ll find that when it is not cooled down, it is heated up, all molecules fight each other. They become so violent that they hit each other. They form certain groups hit each other, and then these groups also again hit each other. But when helium gas is cooled down they all become collective and they start behaving in a manner that is very collective.

So the idea is people who say that with Kundalini you get tremendous heat, you start jumping, and people told me that they start jumping like a frog. One gentleman sitting before me had put both his legs on the ground he was sitting. So they said, “You can’t put these feet towards Mother”. So I asked him, I called him, “What’s the problem?” You see, Indians understand how to respect a saint. So I said, “What’s the problem? Why are you putting your legs towards me?” He said, “Mother, if I sit with folded feet I start jumping like a frog”. So I said, “Are you going to become a frog now? Just think about it! You are not going to become a frog or a bird. You are going to become a higher personality. Who has told you that you are becoming a frog?” He said, “My Kundalini is awakened by a guru and he has given me this book and in that book it was written”, (actually I saw it with my own eyes, what a misleading thing!), “that he is a person who gets his Kundalini awakened starts jumping like a frog.”

Now all these absurd things must be understood that all abnormalities are dropped out after you become the Spirit because that’s the most beautiful thing you have. Spirit is the reflection of God Almighty and when the Kundalini rises and pierces through your fontanelle bone area where you actually get your baptism that time you become a beautiful person, a decent person, a sweet person, a nice person and you forget all your violence. Not only that but you feel the love for others and not violence. Your ego drops out, your superego drops out, means your conditioning drops out. If these transformations don’t take place what’s the serve of becoming the Spirit? So the ideas people have that you start jumping.

I know of so many people now who have been to fake gurus. And this point I must bring to you because everywhere I went the newspaper people ask me about the fake gurus. The other day a American lady asked me in an interview of radio at Perth that, “How do you explain that the people who are seekers, the young people, they go to India and they end up penniless and sometimes they get epilepsy or they take to drugs? Or they become jobless, useless, they live like cabbages and they have nothing to contribute to the society or to themselves. How do we explain that?” She says I’ve got the datas to show you. I said, “I agreed”. I do feel ashamed that these gurus who are not only fake but they are criminals they go into another country to make money. I agree. I accept.

But also I would blame the people who go to them. They are naïve, simple people. They are the ones who are earnestly seeking but you must come to some logical conclusion about everything. That is important, because you are here to get to your Spirit and not to get to a guru. That’s one thing one must know that we have to be the Spirit and not be attached or be sort of enslaved by any guru whatsoever. The guru resides within you in your heart and your Spirit is your heart. Only thing somebody has to trigger it just to become that. But the amount of enslavement and all these things people undergo for nothing at all. You cannot pay for it. Anybody who takes money from you is a parasite, you must know, whether he may be calling himself anything, by any name. Don’t listen to such a person. Now I’ve been telling all the people for the last fourteen years. I was the one fourteen years back, in a very big hall, at least five, six times bigger than this, called as Jehangi Hall in Bombay, I spoke so loudly about all of them. I told their names I told them what they were, how devilish they are. Keep out from them. But nobody would listen to me. Even when I went to America, in the beginning, nobody would listen to me. I told them that, “Be careful. These fake gurus are out, they are going to loot you. Be careful about them.!” But nobody would listen to me on this point because they were so enamoured.

On the contrary, they were teaching me some wisdom. “Mother, you must take some money otherwise Americans won’t understand. If, unless and until they pay for it they are not going to understand”. I said, “How do you underestimate them?” They said, “It’s true”. And I tell you I ended up with some disciples there or some people who got realisation, but I was so frustrated. I asked one great saint of India to go down to New York about two years back, and he ran away. He ran away. He said, “I can’t manage these Americans. Their whole thinking is just the other way round, about God, about everything”.

Now there were people who were teaching that you can approach God through sex. I mean absurd things, it’s obtuse, absolutely it is opposite of what God is. Not that in Sahaja Yoga we disregard sex, sex is a part of life. But sex does not play any part in the ascent you can see because the first centre here Mooladhara is for your excretion and for your sex. So we do not in any way condemn it, but it has its own sanctity and its own channelising. If you become sort of perverted about it you develop diseases, there are problems and anything that is divine cannot give you a disease. So another conclusion they should have reached, I think, that if you are sick, your head is going, reeling, if you are feeling unhappy, sickly and you don’t know what to do then why should you stick onto that guru? Because just you have paid for it? It’s like if you go to a drama and it’s boring, you don’t like it but you said, “Now we’ve paid for it so go through it”. That’s all right because drama doesn’t make you mad, you see, but this kind of thing which is so dangerous even if you have paid, finish with it. Now we started that we have had enough of this man. Now they are buying Rolls Royces, they are buying aeroplanes. Look at where is their attention. They’re more bothered about gathering money to themselves and having other people’s money as they call them opium and live on that and thrive on that and why don’t you use your brains to understand that how can you pay for your realisation? It’s one of your mistakes, I think, not to understand that anyone who is interested in your purse is not interested in your Spirit.

Then apart from that there are so many other mistakes people have committed in pursuit of God. One has to know that when you get your Spirit you get your own powers. I may say I’m as these people have said that, “She’s the greatest saint”. All right. If they have said it I say, “All right, because all the saints in India say so about Me, so all right, I agree”. But I need not say that. Even if I say, “I’m the greatest”, why should you believe in it? What have you got? What powers have you got out of it? What have you achieved out of it is the point. Is should be absolutely clear cut to you that unless and until you get your realisation you should not (sounds like pujout) and you should not accept Sahaja Yoga is the ultimate. You must try to get your realisation, you must get the mastery over it. Unless and until you have done it what’s the use of all Sahaja Yoga done to you. After all it is to transform you into a new life. Transform you, what is your own, is all your own property, I would say. Everything is like a trust. I sometimes say I’m like a banker. Now you put your money in the bank and I’m just a banker who has to give your money. I’m little a very gracious banker so I may give double, four times, five times, ten times, that’s a different point.

But you are seekers so you are ‘men of God’ as described by another very great saint of England, William Blake. He says he has described all these things to us very clearly that at this time men of God will be born and they will become prophets and they will have powers to make others prophet. He has said so clear, everything is so clear-cut, you can’t imagine. If you read him you will be amazed that he has even mentioned where the ashram for Sahaja Yoga will be, where I will be staying, into all details he has mentioned and you must have heard the story of Jerusalem that England will become chaste. I mean if you are (inaudible) what they have been doing about hundred years back in India nobody could have believed the stories that he said, but he could see that the same land which is so aggressive today will become the land of peace, harmony and of spiritualism.

Australia especially I have tremendous respect for Australia as a land because it plays a very important role in Sahaja Yoga. This first centre is the Mooladhara, is Australia. Australia is the Mooladhara of the whole universe and I find every Australian when I meet them there’s a kind of an innocence in him which is still showing now. Of course, innocence can never be destroyed, it can be covered but it can never be destroyed. I have seen that in Australians there is a kind of an innocence which shows very sweetly and that’s where it works out very fast.

Now Dr Warren he first came to me, and his friend, and in the beginning they were very volatile people, extremely angry, hot tempered and all that, you see. And they came to me when I was on my way to Pune so I said, “All right, you come along with me, I haven’t got time”. I think they came to My house and they touched their realisation but still they were so volatile and so angry. So I said, “All right, you come along with Me to Pune”. And you see in Sahaja Yoga we don’t take any money. Naturally, you see, we haven’t got very good arrangements for you. If you want you can stay in a hotel, if you want, but as far as we are concerned whatever Sahaja Yogis had arranged in those days, so we arranged for them to stay in a (what was that?) a, some place, all right, and there there was a doctor from England and these two persons and there was only one mattress for three of them, you see. There was troubling, pushing each other. In the morning, you see, they got up and they got into the rickshaw, saying, all their luggage there. I said, “Why?” “We slept on the cement”, you see. I said, “How?” “We slept on the cement”, thrice+. They went on. I said, “What’s the matter?” I said, “How did you sleep on the cement? They didn’t give you any mattress?” “No, nothing. That fellow from England he was snatching our mattress all the time and we could not sleep and we slept on the cement.” And in that I felt the sweetness of it, how sweetly they were telling Me their problems. It’s such a simple problem to sleep on the cement but sleeping on the cement helps a lot, (they did not know at that time), which helps quite a lot that the Mother Earth sucks your problems. So it was all arranged perhaps that they should be on the cement. But the way they were angry so sweetly and everybody enjoyed that anger so much in Pune and then they got their realisation and I knew that something good has to happen.

Once an Australian gets their realisation it will work out very fast. That’s what exactly what happened in their case and should happen everywhere. I’m very happy on my tour last time in Sydney we did very well. And then we had also this time some program at Perth for the first time. Many people, about three hundred people, got realisation and it was wonderful and the whole thing worked out in such a beautiful way that I am so much encouraged to be here to be with all of you and to do this job, because this is the job I am here for. For this you don’t have to do anything. First I have to work and then you have to work for others. There are so many who are lost, so many who are seekers all over the world it’s not in Australia only, everywhere. They have taken to drugs out of seeking, they have taken to these gurus also out of their seeking, all these problems have come to these seekers. Even too, I’ve seen people who were quite of my age group they told me they have been to some guru in America and who wanted to cut their tongues. All sorts of things they have been trying. You don’t have to do anything like that. You have to be quite intact but only thing that light within you which is the Spirit has to shine into your attention.

Tomorrow I’ll tell you what is self realisation. Tomorrow I’ll tell you exactly what is self realisation and also I’ll tell you about the chakras. In any case they have given you the books which are of course just the beginning of the whole thing is, you can see and read it and understand what are these chakras and what do they do. There’s nothing to be afraid of, nothing to be worried, it’s your own, it has to happen spontaneously, it happens absolutely without any trouble or torture to you. It may happen to all of you, it may happen to some of you and whatever it is we have come here for this purpose only and I’ll work out till my last breath to see that you get what you deserve.

May God bless you.

(I think this part could be deleted –
They want to tell that there is no program tomorrow but we want to have a workshop because in a workshop, just now we’ll give you realisation as well, but in a workshop, tomorrow, I’ll also see if there are people who have diseases and troubles and things like that, because Sahaja Yoga first thing it does is to cure you of your troubles: physical, mental and emotional side, then your social problems it solves. It solves so many problems, I mean it is the answer to all of our problems of today. And if you really feel that seeking it is because this problem has to be solved that all human race has to be emancipated, that you have to save all of them, not only that, but enter into the kingdom of God which is promised to you. So tomorrow we are going to have a workshop, what time? 10 o’clock? From ten o’clock onwards. But we are in a place which is not so big. We have taken this on hire. Maybe we might go to a riverside if there are many people, if there are very few then we can do it here. So after realisation those who want to come to workshop please let us know who want to come to the workshop and that’s how then we’ll arrange the place.)

All right, so now is there any question? Because at the first meeting we must answer questions, is very important. Please ask me questions but don’t ask about these gurus, you see, because it’s a controversial thing. Just forget it. Whatever has happened has happened. Don’t ask about them, “What do you think about this guru?” because I don’t want to say all these things but you yourself should be able to judge it. If you have not yet judged it better judge it now, but, you see, I am not going to talk to you about these things. If they have not given you realisation better forget it. They should have given you realisation, if they have not given realisation then they are good for nothing. Just forget it. So please ask me questions which are more of constructive thing because you are seekers, I am here to give you realisation, that’s all, that’s the only relationship we have, of a mother who wants that the children should be reborn again, nothing more or nothing less. So one should not exceed in this and try to ask me questions which are irrelevant for nothing at all. So may God bless you all.

Dr Warren: Any question?

(Delete long discussion of where to meet for program on the following day.)

Shri Mataji: …from all these various places I have taken a little place on hire and that’s how we have started the program. But now if you people get realisation you can start a centre. It’s a very simple, don’t have to pay for anything, it’s a very simple way of doing it. You must master Sahaja Yoga, we’ll get some people from there who will come down and settle down here to help you. So nobody has to pay anything for it, nothing of the kind, it’s just that you should get together and understand it and master it.

Dr Warren: Any questions?

Seeker: I would like to ask Mother a question. Is schizophrenia an evolutionary process?

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, by no chance. You see, that I will tell you tomorrow, what happens, how you get these diseases. All right? It’s not at all evolutionary. You become the sanest personality. No. But how it comes, how it works out and why it enters into our being that I’ll tell you tomorrow, everything, all right tomorrow lecture. I’ll cover it up with why do we get schizophrenia? Why do we get cancer? Why do we get other diseases which are not curable? All psychosomatic problems, everything I will explain to you tomorrow, on these chakras, and on the centres. It’s not at all evolutionary at all, absolutely not. On the contrary it is against.

That’s what it is you see, one of the gurus had a lecture and one of our Sahaja Yogi had gone to that lecture. He is a doctor and he was amazed that the fellow was talking that when you see a person doing that particular type of a mantra and you see the brain then what you find in the brain is the theta wave. Now theta waves are only found in a person who is epileptic. So he got up, he said, “Oh God, that makes you become epileptic, is that so?” So they said, “No, no. It’s not epilepsy, it’s another type of theta wave.” I mean, if you have to diagnose, you see, I have also done medicine. These gurus have no knowledge of any kind, they have no science knowledge, nothing, you see. They take some scientist, “All right, you come to our group and speak to them”, and now they become identified with them and take all the credit with them. An ego-orientated people, you see. You tell somebody, “Oh, you are a great scientist. You come and speak to our people”, and they say, “This is what we are teaching.” Imagine! This one was shocked and he said, “How is it theta wave? Because when you have to find out about a patient whether he is suffering from any trouble if you find theta wave that means the person is epileptic. So how the diagnosis is?” So you see, they started saying, “It’s another kind of thing” or “We’ll meet you again”, and then they contacted the doctor. They said, “Why don’t you come and see us, have lunch with us”, they offered him money, this and that. Can you imagine?

But how people have closed their eyes! The other day one doctor came to see Me in Perth. He’s a very good man, and he’s an Indian doctor. More surprising is that some of the doctors have give up their jobs and they have become like cabbages. They can’t also see a (Delete-what you call?) garlic. This is their situation and all blame should come to India and Indian Government. I said, “But what can Indian government do about it?” You see, nobody can do anything. There are people who are really penniless, you can’t do anything about it.

There was a lady, a granddaughter of a Duke, you see, she went to an organisation like that. Actually they were running a, she was a director of a flying academy in Scotland and they had huge properties and everything and they became absolutely penniless because the students who came ate in their place where they were. Sort of they never had any contact financially and the whole money was taken away and they became absolutely penniless. This woman got epilepsy, her daughter got epilepsy, the husband got epilepsy. And then they came to me. I had to put them in My own house because where do you keep them, such people you can’t keep them with other sane Sahaja Yogis, you see. They got cured, they’re all right but the husband because he became bankrupt he had to go back to South Africa. And the wife and the child are both of them are there but they have lost everything. Now through Sahaja Yoga they are working out something and we’ll try to help her to resettle her life. She had such a lot of (sounds like – rich) she was the granddaughter of a Duke.

But I asked her, “How did you go about it, you see, you were getting epilepsy?” She used to scream for three hours. I haven’t seen this kind of a case that she was and she used to get her neck back like that and she used to scream for three hours. And when they told this gentleman, their guru, that, you see, “This was happening to me”, he said that, you see, “Go and see some psychiatrist”. They take no responsibility, no responsibility at all. So I mean I asked her, “How is it”, (she is a very well-educated lady), I said, “How is it with all your education and everything you jumped to this kind of a nonsense?” And she said, “You see, it was like walking under the blanket. We did not know. They said, “You pay three hundred pounds we’ll give you this mantra.” We paid 300 pound and the mantra they gave any Indian who is here will know was ‘tinga’. Imagine! That means showing like this is tinga, and they were told this is a secret. Inga, pinga all sorts of names they gave and this is a secret. You are not to tell anyone.

And this guru used to actually giggle at them all the time, he used to giggle at the stupidity of these people. This minted money. There’s an article that he’s got 60,000 caroles of rupees. Caroles means, ah means 35 million dollars in Indian money, Indian. We don’t know how much he has got with the bank in Switzerland. Like this is only one. Another one who was giving realisation with a peacock feather or something like that, he died in America, he has got, you’ll be amazed now if you go now and enquire, you’ll be amazed that sixty thousand caroles of diamonds he has got. Sixty thousand caroles of diamonds he left and both the disciples are now fighting. Then another one has got now 36 Rolls Royces and three aeroplanes. Just imagine. The another one has 58 and he told the disciples in England that if you give me the fifty ninth I’ll come down. And these simple people, you know, already suffering so much, they are having so much trouble, some of them are gone mad, you see they starved themselves, ate only potatoes and all that in one whole year and then they called this fellow and gave him that Rolls Royce that’s why he came to give them a darshan. Can you imagine? How you are responsible, I would say, in a way, to be that much stupid to believe anyone like that. You have got nothing. Nothing you have got. It’s a very sad thing, I know, but you find everything they have to find they can’t surpass you, they cannot win over you, they cannot be victorious, they do not know the powers of God, but give them up completely, you have to fight them, we’ll fight it out. No doubt there’s so many people now coming back and understanding.

Question from seeker (inaudible)

Shri Mataji: We have to be the true seekers of truth

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi