1994-0406 Interview Burwood Ashram Sydney Australia
Interviewer: Shri Mataji, can we start at the very beginning, ‘what is the need to achieve self-realization?’
Shri Mataji: If you see the problems of this world today, you can easily find out that most of them are because of some sort of a problem which is existing among human beings. Some are aware of it, and some are not. You take the physical, you take the mental, spiritual, social, political, religious. So, that shows one thing that we have not yet known the Absolute Truth. We have Unclear (know, no) yet that light in which we can see the Absolute Truth. And if there is a method by which you can advance in your evolutionary process, and have a break through into reality then these problems can be solved. And that’s why self-realization is eminent for us and is already planned by the Divine.
Interviewer: So, what kind of system, what kind of subtle system do we have that enables us to achieve the self-realization?
Shri Mataji: There is a system within us which we can call as the mechanism which achieve this happening through a connecting chord or the premule of our seed which we call as Kundalini. So, the Truth is that we are not this body, this mind, this social life that we lead or the ego that we have or the conditionings but we are the pure Spirit. And another truth is that there is a all-pervading power of Divine love which does all the living works. Who runs our heart? They might say: its autonomous nervous system. But who is this auto? All these questions are there. And we need something more in our awareness to understand what is all this. Why are we on this Earth. And this subtle system is already there existing with in us and this power of Kundalini which is three and half coils in our sacrum bone ‘imagine it was called sacrum by Greeks means they knew it was a sacred bone’ which passes through six centers which are energy centers within our spinal chord and brain and connects us to this all-pervading power to the subtle energy that does all the living work.
Interviewer: Then what is the difference between the Sahaja Yoga and all these other yogas that are in the market place?
Shri Mataji: See, Sahaja: Saha means with you, ja is born. That means spontaneous. Spontaneous Yoga. That means it’s a living process. But all other yogas are included in it. like if you have a car and when you ignite it, all the machinery starts working. In the same way, the machinery within starts working as soon as the Kundalini is awakened. Alright? Now, this machinery when it starts working, it is called as Raja Yoga. But normally people of Raja Yoga what they do, that they try, they try to use the machinery as if it is outside. Like your car has not started, you start moving the wheels. No use. It’s like that. They do bandhas that means they try to muscular closing of the chakras they try. Because when the Kundalini raises these chakras close. No doubt. Because they allow the Kundalini to move up and then close. So that it doesn’t fall down. But these people do it artificially. What’s the use? There is no Kundalini also they do Khechari. Some people who are having a self-realization organization in America, now it’s finished I think, they used to cut this thread under the tongue and take the tongue backwards saying that this is Khechari. Actually, what happens, when the Kundalini raises then this tongue automatically is pulled inside. Because it is closed you see, this center is closed. So, automatically it is pulled inside. But these people do it artificially and I have seen some people who had their tongues hanging like wagging just like a dog’s tongue. They can’t speak, they can’t eat. But they did it all in seeking. And two were doctors from India. They never came back to India. So, this is what it is that, to do something artificially, is can never achieve the yoga. It has to be spontaneous. Then Hath yoga is where people do asanas and things. There are eight angas means eight facets of this Hath yoga of Patanjali. Out of which one is Yama-Niyama. Out of which Unclear () are these asanas. We too use asanas sometimes if there is any physical problem. But first we allow the Kundalini to raise so we know where is the problem. And if it requires any physical exercise then we tell them ‘alright, you need to do physical exercise’. It’s just science. It’s not just everybody to do all kinds of asanas and what happens if Unclear () the people are thin down with the terrible exercises. They thin down and they think that they are very healthy but such people get liver trouble, they get heart trouble, asthma all kinds of things. So, indiscriminate use of these things is wrong. After realization then you should do it because you know what is your problem. Otherwise without knowing your problem, you are just trying these things is not very good. But actually, Patanjali himself has written what happens after realization that you develop thoughtless awareness, doubtless awareness. Even yoga has written about it. So, it shows that they have written about it, they may not have talked about Kundalini and all that. But they have written that these are the stages one has to pass through. This is the most part of Patanjali’s book. Most of it. A little bit is there about Yama-Niyama. What you should do, what you should not eat, what you should eat.
Interviewer: Nother question along the same line Shri Mataji, why are they so many problems between religions?
Shri Mataji: Same thing. They have not yet got their self-realizations. They haven’t got their reality. They don’t know what reality is. They are like blind people. Blind people always thinks that they are the best you see. They can’t see and others are all fools. So, when they start preaching something blind to the blind where will they go? So, they have to have their realization which everybody has said. Christ has said it, Buddha has said it, Maha Veera has said it, Krishna has said it, Rama has said it. Every body has said that you have to have self-realization. But nobody does this. Most of the religions are power oriented. They are fighting for a power or a land. Or for some mosque or something. Or if not that they are money oriented. And it could be both or. So, these are not religions because they are not spirit oriented. I always say that this way of flower born on the tree of life and then everybody plucks the flowers and carry those flowers with them which were dead and start proclaiming them saying that these are our flowers, these are my flowers and all. And now they are with dead flowers. So, that decaying and people are finding it out. That’s why now people are become now very negligent about their religion and they don’t bother.
Interviewer: How does self-realization help to establish peace within oneself?
Shri Mataji: Of course, it does. You see all these things are in thoughts. All the religions are nothing but mere thoughts now. These are only mental processes. It has nothing to do with reality. So, the thought starts and falls off and another thought starts and falls off. They either come from the past or from the future. Or you can say from the conditionings and from the ego. So, you are never in the present. That means you are never in the reality. But when this happens is Kundalini raises then these thoughts are elongated. In between these thoughts there is reality – the present. Where you don’t think. And you establish that state which we call as thoughtless awareness. By this happening and you are at peace with yourself. I have known people who have got peace of wars this thing, they were very hot-tempered people. Very very hot tempered. So, how can they spread peace when they are not peace within their selves? So, from that angel, one has to say that you have to have self-realization for your own self to be peaceful and to emit peace through you.
Interviewer: What advantages physically do we get from self-realization?
Shri Mataji: Physical being is very much helped. I have seen people getting cured during just awakening and many have been cured. There are four doctors now, we should say who have got their M.D. in Sahaja Yoga for they were cure of diseases which were in curable. Then we have also a method by which you can feel yourself. What are your problems physical are. And problems of others. Because you develop a personality which we call as a collective conscious personality. And in that you can feel what’s wrong with another person, what’s wrong with you, this is a self-knowledge about your health everything. And if you can connect these centers which are energy of Unclear () you are cured. You can cure others also. So, it does help. It’s your own power that helps you. You don’t have to also go to these horrible places where they have to discover what’s wrong with you. You just discover it on your fingertips. And if you know how to cure it, you can cure yourself and you can cure others also. We have to know this knowledge you have to have what is to be done, how to be alright with Sahaja Yoga. You see, you don’t have to be all of them military like same size people, God has created every leaf different from another leaf and that brings variety and personality and one should respect the body. One should not go on trying to become like some cinema actor or actress but you have to be yourself whatever you are. And mostly the body is built up according to the need of a person. Now for example, to protect my centers, I have to be little fat. Otherwise, if I thin down, I don’t know what will happen to my centers. So, I have to be fat. I accept it that if I have fat, is alright.
Interviewer: Then it would seem that through self-knowledge, we are also reaching new dimensions. What are these new dimensions?
Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s what we do. With self-knowledge, you really know yourself first of all what’s problem with you. Then you know others. Then you know the reality. And the reality is very simple to understand that you have to enter into the Kingdom of God and enjoy yourself. What more do you want. And you don’t have to pay for it because it’s a living process. Very simple thing. When you are in a filthy pond, facing all kinds of worms and things, to you that pond becomes the reality. But the lotuses that come out with their fragrance, for them, their new life is reality. That’s the heaven for them. And they are not bothered as to what surrounds them. But here is more. You are bothered, and you try to elevate others also. And then you realize how great is your own being. How glorified it is. And you start respecting yourself and utilizing it for the benefit of others.
Interviewer: Self-realization would appear to be a very powerful thing. Does one develop new powers?
Shri Mataji: Of course, it gives lots of powers. Firstly, it gives you the power of collective consciousness. By which you know the problems of others. Within yourself you are peaceful, and you are very kind and compassionate and at the same time you are very dynamic. Supposing you have some talent which is not yet expressed well suddenly he starts expressing. I have seen people who are like charted accountants becoming great poets. Musicians suddenly become world famous. Because whatever power they had, their talent had now been enlightened. We use a very little of it but with this you are so confident of yourself and so compassionate at the same time. That it works and it has worked with so many people even artists and also dancers everybody has seen the beauty of their own potential. That’s what happens to many people.
Interviewer: And to ask the age-old question to Unclear () conscious pilot, what is Truth? How do we achieve it?
Shri Mataji: That’s what I told you through out, the Truth is that you are the Spirit. And the another is there is an all-pervading power. And through Kundalini awakening you have to have connection with this all-pervading power, so your Spirit starts shining in your being, in your life.
Interviewer: And another fundamental question Shri Mataji what is pure Divine Love?
Shri Mataji: No no but at mental level what will you understand? See, your mental level is limited, you have to go beyond it. Then you know the Truth is that you are the Spirit. And because the manifestation of the Spirit starts. Pure Divine Love is the energy, is a subtle energy which does all the creation, all the sustenance and all the redemption. So, in this redemption process now we have become human beings. Now the same power which is reflected in us as Kundalini works out the last bit where we become connected to this all-pervading power. So, this pure love as I am talking about is a very subtle energy is the ocean of real knowledge. Is the ocean of compassion, blessings. And above all, it is dynamism. So, this energy understands things, co-ordinates, co-operates above all it loves. But its love is not like human love where you get entangled with your child or with your wife or with something. Actually this, this beautiful energy is very delicately handling human beings. And it raises like a sap in the tree. Which gives energy to all the parts of the tree and then it evaporates or else it goes back. Its not attached to anything. But when you are attached to someone, then what happens, that loved eyes as a result you get stagnated like the sap. Supposing it’s attached to one flower, the tree will die and ultimately also the flower will die. So, it’s a process of complete detached movement of this energy of Divine Love.
Interviewer: So, human love really is very selfish.
Shri Mataji: Yes. Because you see, not I would say selfish always but it’s always limited. Because this mental capacity also apart from mental capacity, there is emotional capacity which are all limited in human beings. But this one is not limited.
Interviewer: And on a much more mundane level you have an enormous organization that operates right throughout the world. How is it done without money?
Shri Mataji: Its organization which is spontaneously built and it’s a living organism like our bodies you see. And it exists through co-operation, co-ordination, understanding very innate feelings of oneness. This is the reason why we don’t have to spend much money. Of course, we don’t spend any money for self-realization which is a living process. Also, we don’t spend really much money otherwise also which you would require to organize something or to do something. Because such a spontaneous happening. But we need some time some money say for may be organizing a program in a city I think, we find it so easy with so many people with little money we can do a lot. And also, there are blessings and we get so many times things so cheaper, so much better with little payment. Firstly, Shri Mataji as you called me, I would say in the beginning I just was so concerned how to spread Sahaja Yoga that I would travel myself on my own account. And even I have booked halls on my account. But now everybody said that it is not proper that you should pay for our salvation also. So, they collect some money but the amount is so little that every body’s purse is not much dust. And those can afford to pay only pay very little amount of money.
Interviewer: And I have heard that many Sahaja Yogis say that if you help with your own money, if you help finance God’s work, it also helps you financially.
Shri Mataji: That’s what they think. They have experienced like that. That’s why they believe that those who have generously help for Sahaja Yoga have been looked after in every way. That is their experience.
Interviewer: Yes, it seems to be yes. It’s a natural Unclear ()
Shri Mataji: Yeah. This is the Kindness of the Divine you see. Also, those who tried to harm us I am told that harmed which I don’t want to do any harm to them but something happens to them like a Divine punishment may be. Not of a severe type but it does something to them, that makes them understand that they have done wrong to us. We only forgive. We don’t do anything to them.
Interviewer: And one final question Shri Mataji, do you see a begin Unclear () in Sahaja Yoga?
Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s what I have seen now. Suddenly, last year it started to galloping very fast and, in every country, it has gone up Unclear ().
Interviewer: So, by the end of the century we should have many thousands of Sahaja Yogis.
Shri Mataji: Yes. We will. No doubt about it. Practically most of them who are to be emancipated we find many.
Interviewer: That is an interesting thing you say, is there is a certain number of Sahaja Yogis potential?
Shri Mataji: Still, they are. Quite a lot. But I think some will be judged as no good. May be. Because I have seen such people myself.
Interviewer: Thank you very much.
Shri Mataji: May God bless you.