How to get to the Spirit that lies within

Caxton Hall, London (England)

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Public Program. Caxton Hall, London, England. 26 November 1979.

…and how it resides within us and how we are lost in the curtains of Maya.

Today I am going to tell you how we get to that Spirit.

There are two types of methods people employ in finding out that Spirit. One is called as anuvopai, and another one is called as shaktopai. ‘Anu’ means a molecule. When we are lost in the Maya, as I had told you last time, actually the Spirit is eternal, It is all-powerful. It never loses Its power whether we are old, young, whatever condition we may be, the Spirit has Its own power, all the time. But, the reflection of the Spirit in us, the light of the Spirit in us, depends on the quality of our reflector, how we are. And because of the quality being so poor sometimes, darkness is created within us and in that darkness, we do not know sometimes, even to that extent, that there is something beyond.

So the first style of seeking is anuvopai as you call it, which is depending on separating molecules after molecules. Because under these circumstances, when you are surrounded by darkness, you see Spirit just as a molecule or you can say a spark or a flicker. Sometimes you just get a flicker of it.

As you know the thoughts arise within us and fade away. We see the thoughts rising and fading away. And there are many thoughts all around us. Our attention is on those thoughts, moving all the time. It is very hard to find that space in between two thoughts, that’s why what we see is just a flicker, you can call it, or a little atom of that Spirit, sometimes sparkling. And then the search starts among human beings.

From that darkness, from Tamoguna they start searching and the kriya (action) starts within us. So we can see in the left hand side as you see the Ida Nadi, by which we live in Tamoguna, in desiring for it, and then we move to the right hand side, on the Pingala Nadi, in which we act. In that action we try to find the Spirit. Of course, first we think it is in getting material advancement that you will find that Spirit, that flicker, and so we go in for material advancement.

Now, material advancement is very different from the spiritual advancement. Or we can say the material happening, what we see, like a plane landing or a plane taking off or a collision of two trains or any such happenings are outside and spiritual happening is within.

Our attention is always attracted towards outside happenings and it is an impossibility to take this attention inside. That is why something has to happen within us to attract that attention inside. We cannot force our attention inside, so people try, normally, the anuvopai is that what you call Ashtanga Yoga and other Yogas, by which they try separating themselves from myth, from darkness; for which you need very astute, honest, sincere people, very young celibate, innocent people, those who have to live in the forest with their Gurus. So they keep out their attention, which is called as nirodha (restraint). They stop their attention spreading itself. They concentrate their attention with the help of a Realised soul.

If you come to India you’ll meet some real sages like that who live on top of hills and mountains, who are not easily available to people. They do not sell their religion or they do not sell their Realisation to people. Hidden away from the madding crowd, they exist there. One of them has told someone, some Sahaja Yogis that he has practiced anuvopai for twenty-one thousand years from when he was just a frog!

It’s fantastic that he carried on for twenty-one thousand years, every year, life, he was born and still he cannot raise the Kundalini of others very easily! Still he does not have the power to raise the Kundalini the way you Sahaja Yogis can raise! It’s most surprising! He has given Realisation to only one person, only one. In twenty five years he worked on him; the same way, anuvopai. These are the people who are detached, veetragas. Not that you have to run way from anywhere, but living in the society only you can achieve it through our Sahaja Yoga or Mahayoga. This is shaktopai. But these people still are afraid to come in the cities because they could not make people understand. They do not trust human beings and they want to keep away from them. They are not married. They lead a celibate life. They live up to two hundred years sometimes, sometimes a thousand years also. But it is a very individualistic movement, works on one or two people. Births after births they cleansed themselves. This is anuvopai.

So the search for the Divine or for the Spirit has been on for ages now, it’s not a new thing that we are doing here. And you also have been seeking that Divine in your previous lives and many lives before. But you must know that for seeking you have to go inside. It’s not outside. And how do you go inside? Is the problem. Some people say that if you go on suggesting, “I’m going inside,” you go inside. It’s all imagination, because when the attention is out, the knower and the knowledge, both are different. Like if I see this thing now, for example, if I am not a Realised soul, I’ll see this one and I will just think, “How much they must have paid for it? What is it made of? From where did they get it?” All sorts of these superficial things as you can call it. At the most somebody might say, “It’s very aesthetically placed and it has very great balance,” and all that. At the most! But it is all outside, because the knower who knows about it is outside the knowledge.

So there’s a tremendous difference between the happening outside and happening inside. When you see a train colliding you will say, “Oh, look at this! What is this they have done? This driver is wrong!” and that, “These people have suffered so much,” and all sorts of things. You’ll start collecting money. Whatever we do normally, you see. But the knowledge about it is outside the knower that is your Self. But when the spiritual happening takes place the knowledge and the knower become one.

For example now this machine that is here, to a normal person as I told you will be, “It is so much, it costs so much,” or whatever it is, you see. But to a Realised soul it would be, “Is it vibrating? Is it emitting vibrations? What sort of vibrations is it emitting? It is good or bad?” Because then you start understanding it according to spiritual value and not according to material value. I hope you understand this point.

Spiritual value is an absolute value. And what is the measure of that is the spiritual joy. The vibrations give you spiritual joy – the good vibrations, I mean. What are good vibrations? Are nothing but the coefficience (sic) of this whole thing is emitting through it, the All Pervading Power, which is giving you joy. It is an absolute value. You take ten children who are Realised souls: you tie their eyes and ask them to put their hands towards one person. All of them will show you the same finger, which is burning; whichever is the chakra they are catching. There will be no confusion, no second opinion about it, no quarrelling, because that’s what it is, because the knower and the knowledge is the same.

That is why when our attention is outside and we are seeking something or knowing something, then we start seeing it according to our thinking and who does the thinking is Mr. Ego or maybe Superego. We are not there to think about it, so anything you give them, say for example you marry two persons in modern times. So they’ll sit down and work it out. How can you work out a marriage with your brains? It’s a question of your heart. Just enjoy it. You give them food, they’ll sit down and work it out, start analysing it. They cannot synthesise it. The food will get cold, it will lose all its taste and the whole thing will be wasted. They make the same thing out of their lives. For nothing at all they create problems by thinking. Analysis starts outside, synthesis starts inside.

Now this nirodha is the withdrawing of your attention inside as I told you is only possible through a happening within. Now how do you get the happening within yourself? For example, I am talking to you, you are paying attention to Me: supposing something falls down, immediately your attention goes to that happening. So there has to be some happening within. Now, what is that happening, is Kundalini Yoga, and this Kundalini Yoga is the shaktopai, is the, is known as shaktipath, is the giving of the Shakti. Very few are entitled with this, I mean today these are all selling ‘shaktis’ there. There have their ashramas, and this that, they are talking of shakti, when that people start dancing, jumping, screaming like possessed people. That is not Shakti at all.

Only a person of a very high quality can raise the Kundalini because he is to be authorised by God. It’s a very rare thing to give Realisation to people. Only such people who have been authorised by God can just move the Kundalini straight forward.

So the anuvopai is a very slow action, is for few individuals who get out of this maya, this illusion and tell people that, “This is all illusion, is a mirage, you are running after a mirage. Don’t run after this mirage.” But still, people can’t believe them. They crucify them, they poison them, they beat them, they do all kinds of things to them. I mean, they did not do any harm to anyone whatsoever that they should be treated so badly by human beings.

So, it is to be understood that your attention has to be sucked in. The nirodha has to work out. Not by denying things, “Don’t look at the women.” “Don’t look at the gold.” “Don’t look at things, your attention will be spoiled.” Not by those methods. Or by taking you to the jungles, leading you a celibate life, making a very holy atmosphere around and just forcing you that you do not see that [which] is evil. But when you see it again you go back to the same!

There’s no immunity developed.

So the attention when it’s sucked in by Kundalini rising, the first thing you notice is that there is dilatation of the pupil. Now, dilatation of the pupil will cause a kind of a blindness, normally. There was a lady doctor who had come for her Realisation to me once and I tried to raise her Kundalini, it wouldn’t go beyond Agya. While she was driving suddenly she felt that her eyes were dilating and she couldn’t see, so she took her car on one side and she said , “For about a minute I just could not see anything, I was quite worried. I felt my dilatation of the pupil is taking place and I was worried about it that how I’ve become blind.” And then again she got back but when she went back, she was seeing much better and there was a sparkle in her eyes, eyes were sparkling. She telephoned to me, she said , “Does it happen?” I said , “Yes.” To attract your attention from outside inward, Kundalini does that to you, that She dilates your pupil. Now the doctors may come on my head and say that it is a parasympathetic or a sympathetic action. They do not know, they have not yet decided. It’s the action of Kundalini.

They don’t know about Kundalini. Even if you show them pulsating they will not believe it. They don’t want to believe it. They want to remain outside, in ignorance. All of them are like that.

Now, everybody is saying that now outside battles are over, we have to have battle inside, we have to fight ourselves. Anywhere you go they will say that, “We must find our wholesomeness.” Oh, big lectures you know! Conferences after conferences people are talking so big! Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. But when it comes to reality that you can have it, it’s a very slow movement [but] still better than anuvopai! By anuvopai [those] who are living in the city they will not reach anywhere, they cannot. If you try to do all those things, if you do not have a Realised soul as your guru and also the atmosphere, either you’ll get into ego or into superego; you’ll have a problem there, either onto to the left or onto the right. Supposing you tell them , “Now, don’t drink, don’t smoke!” Immediately you will get conditioned and Mr. Freud will stand up and say, “See, you are conditioned, you should have all the freedom!” Alright. So you go ahead [and] do whatever you please. So your Mr. Ego will become like a big balloon on your head if you do whatever you please. And then you have a big forehead coming out, eating everyone out like that. (laughing) And I have given a nice speech on Mr. Ego, how it tries to strangle everyone and how we are raising against everyone. This Mr. Ego gives us the feeling that we are something and that is the one which keeps us in bondage of ignorance.

And it’s like, I sometimes feel, like the fist of a boxer! Anybody tries to go near it, it gives you a bang back! Anybody tries to say anything about it, it will come out with a big bang on your head. So if you do not pay attention to your ego and say, “No, no, no, no, I must not eat this, I must not do this, I must not do that,” finished! You go onto the left hand side and then you get the conditioning and then you may fall into the traps of Mr. Rajneesh or someone like that, who is conditioning you. And you cannot get out of it. You try your level best, you cannot get out of it, because they entrap you with their hypnosis, you go into your superego, you are hypnotised, you are possessed and whatever you may try, all such people are very difficult for Sahaja Yoga. They think I don’t know what they are doing, but it is not my knowing, it is your knowing is the point. The loser is within you, and the winner is also within you.

It is you [who] have to gain, not me. Sahaja Yoga is not for me at all. I don’t have to do it. It is for you to do it to gain that knowledge which is your Self. Only thing I can do is the Shakti path but actually I don’t do it either, I can tell you. I don’t do anything. I’m just sitting quiet. It just emits, what can I do? That’s my nature, it just flows. It works out that way.

But, because of our ego, we want all challenges. Supposing I tell you tomorrow that, “You can only get it by jumping hundred times,” you will immediately start doing that! If I tell you, say, on another sort of a efficiency trip, that, “Supposing you do a hundred jumps in five minutes, you will get it faster,” you will do that. Or else I give you another kind of a pralobhan (प्रलोभन) as they call it, a temptation. Like you put five rupees today then I say, “No, no, you better put ten rupees,” and you put that. It’s like a running a horse, race. See how superficially we look at this. In this superficiality we are going to get lost completely. If you are really seeking then you find it and be there and get it! This is your own! We talk big; I find very – I mean I meet the people who are the cream of every nation, I should say, and they are creaming each other, that’s all! Nothing more than that. They do not want to go deeper into it and talking about, “Oh, we understand. There has to be a Messiah. There has to be [that] something must happen to us.”  “We should all become wholesome.” Now they are finding fanaticism is troubling them so they are saying, “No, these fanatics are there.” And we are all fanatics when we are outside. I mean, if you ask me, they look like mad people to me. Such extremists! All [their] attention outside.

And an arrangement has been made within you, as I told you, of Kundalini being placed at the triangular bone there. It’s so beautiful it is constructed, just see the beauty of the Kundalini. Even in seeking we have gone all out to torture our Kundalini. We are not honest to ourselves and to our Mother, the Kundalini, the One who is sitting there for us to give us our Realisation, our re-birth. She is there, you can see for yourself with your naked eyes. For example, one of the Sahaja Yogis who is a doctor went and talked to the doctors. I said, “Now, what are they doing?” They said, “Yes, we know, we got the cool breeze in the hand, alright.” “Then?” “And yes we see, we know there is something pulsating in the triangular bone.” “Then? Does not intrigue you?” “But still, how can that be Self Realisation?”

I mean, it is beyond any one to drink water for others and digest it and enjoy it. You can take somebody to the water, make them drink, push them down into it, but if they just refuse then what can you do about it? And then they will come out of it and have a big conference: “It’s a big conference. Having, a big, big conferences!”  Halls they’ll fill up! And what are they discussing? How to know that you are a part of the one living organism! Again you take out some books, read here, have a big discussion, have a big party out of that and finished. This ‘Sunday School’ seeking, is not going to help us.

First thing we have to be genuine about it that we want to seek it. As you know in Sahaja Yoga, those who have advanced, those who have really worked genuinely, without paying attention outside, have been able to know the Divine, to enjoy It and to give It to others. But anywhere in life you see, without genuineness, what are you going to achieve? It’s like some mad man who’s a Liaison Officer, you see. Imagine what a job and a half! He’s a Liaison Officer, so he is running with the flowers for one person, another for another person, he doesn’t know who is coming. He may give flowers to somebody else, all sorts of madness. In the same way, we are like Liaison Officers, without any feelings within our heart. But with this happening you start feeling the other within you. You start feeling. It’s an actualisation, as I told you last time. And when that actualisation takes place the only thing you have to do, is to allow it to grow, because it has happened spontaneously without your effort being put into it and it is going to work out spontaneously. Only don’t stop its progress by your own ego and your own style of looking at things. You cannot make a career out of it or a business. It is to be enjoyed!


Now I am surprised how human beings are not selling their children. I mean they are selling everything. They are selling their hair, nose, eyes, everything that is possible under the sun, blood. But the source of all the joy that is within you is in the heart pulsating. That is called as the pranashakti, is the pulsating power of the Spirit within you, which is just to be enlightened so [that] the whole attention gets enlightened.

And the difference between an ordinary awareness, where the knower and the knowledge are two different things and an enlightened awareness, where both become one, it is tremendous! But nobody wants to practice it and see for yourself how dynamic it is! This is what the whole world is seeking today, this is what we are talking about and that is how the supply department from India for all the kinds of thugs are coming here! So it’s a big circus going on everywhere! Do you want to also run in the same circus? I mean, it is not to please me, sir, but is to please your Self. Because it is only the spiritual value of everything whatsoever is going to give you joy, nothing else.

Let the awakening take place. Give some time to it. You have problems, the Kundalini rises, alright. It touches the Sahastrara, that’s also correct. But many people they say, “Mother, when it has touched, why should it fall?” Now, it’s not my fault. Mine does not fall. It falls because of your faults, whatever you have done to yourself. The Kundalini has to supply, she has to look after you. You have been so cruel to yourself or to others, whatever you have done. You have done all wrong things so far, so Kundalini falls.

Let Her look after all these things. She knows you have a problem. But if you are not genuine, she knows also that you are not genuine. She’ll just disappear into your Mooladhara there in the triangular bone and will never rise. She’ll be very badly frozen. When you start thinking about the Kundalini, you just close her completely there and she just goes down. She sees, “This man doesn’t know anything. He’ll have to take another ten births perhaps to get his Kundalini again back in place.” But with some people it comes up and stays there. You must respect it. You must value it. If you value that, you have valued yourself and nobody else. By crucifying Christ, you cannot reduce his value by any chance. You have crucified yourself by that, when you crucified you.

So the good time is coming, Christmas ahead. Let Christ be born within us on our Agya here in the crossing point. Let us remember all these great incarnations and prophets who came on this earth, who lived like us, like ordinary human beings, in the most ordinary way. They led a very ordinary simple life. Some of them married also, had children. Why? They could have lived on the hills and mountains very easily avoiding all the nonsense. No, they did come to give you a milestone in your achievement of your evolution, and this is what is the evolution, the Maha Yoga, where you become one with the Spirit. All the rest is useless, of no value. Spirit is your Self, is you.

You are identified with your ego, so you want to always satisfy your ego, “I like it.” “I like it,” means Mr. Ego likes it, really, most of the time. And the Self doesn’t say , “I like it.” It feels it. It feels within Itself. It’s absolute. This is the shaktopai, which many people are practicing. I haven’t come across even one genuine person who does this, so far. I mean we had: Nanaka was there, Kabira was there, we had in India – great people. And they have talked about these fake people. Even in the anuvopai, also Kundalini has to rise in any case! It has happened in the case of Buddha and Mahavira. But I told you that they were the children of Rama and thousands of years later, they got their Realisation, and they are like incarnations only, you can say, but they are different styles.

We have no time to waste now. This is the Last Judgment where we have to give up all our nonsensical ideas. You see, it’s difficult to talk to people who have made business out of God, or some sort of a political issue out of a God. But sensible people should know that they have to know themselves first of all, they have to become themselves and then they will know that they are really a part and parcel of the whole, of the Viraat, the Akbar.

You cannot know religion from outside like these people are saying, “Allah ho Akbar, Allah ho Akbar,” and killing you! Or sitting in the Church and, “Let’s us sing hymn number such and such.” Or in our temples selling all kinds of drugs. That’s why this contrast one doesn’t understand how religious people could be like that. And then you get some nice people, ‘gentlemen’, you know, ‘very good people’. Useless! “Oh, they are very good,” alright, what will they do? They’ll make some bridges or may have some tunnels or may do some creative work of writing some novels or something. But still the knower and the knowledge is separated in them. They are useless to themselves, I am saying, not to others.

And the confusion has to go by achieving your absolute. But all the time our attention is outside criticising others or finding faults with others or some sort of a trivial thing. All this sounds so trivial in this world, the way we are wasting our energy. Here is the store within us of our own earnings, of our own punyas by which you have to get that [which] is promised to you and to enjoy that and here is the key for you! Keep your minds open and take in, have it, it’s a gift. As you yourself know that – you have got so many gifts from God. How is it you have become a human being? What have you done to become a human being? This is a gift of God, this beautiful human body, mind, everything you have got it. And now that gift itself is going to transform you into the greatest of greatest gift – is to know your Father. The One who has created you is anxious to bestow all His powers to you, like a father wants to bestow all his property. So take it with both the hands and have it, and enjoy it.

Before Realisation, I do not tell you that you give up drinking, smoking or any kind of nirodh. No, I cannot ask you to do that. But after Realisation, jolly well you give it up, you just do it, because you now taste the ambrosia, the amruta. Then you don’t want to have anything else. But, till you have tasted it, give some time, have some patience.

You need not be very well educated for this. You need not have a very good practice of say, standing on your heads! You need not be going to churches or anything. If you are a normal human being, it is going to work out. But mostly, when we do all these things, we are abnormal. Even in saying that we are seeking God, we are doing lots of abnormal things. We have to be absolutely normal. It is like this room being dark, you are sitting down here, now sit down! It’s going to work out. But we start jumping here and there and we get hurt. It’s like going in a boat: just keep quiet, just be in the centre, with the centre of gravity of the boat. Just be there! That is dharma. In your sustenance, stay there. I mean to remain good, you don’t have to do anything. I mean to become bad, you have to do something, isn’t it?

All these things will come to you automatically when there is light. Just be quiet. All of you are going to get it. That is being ordained, that’s being arranged, organised, very well within you, beautifully. As in a seed everything is arranged, to create a tree, it’s arranged within you. But you have to be together, work it out, understand each other and this group grows in that understanding, in collectivity, and creates a nucleus for others to follow it.

So, there should be no problem for you to understand that it is a special grace. Because you are special, maybe I am also special, and special people needed somebody special, so I had to come down here! Let’s have it in a mutual admiration way, will be a good idea. There is no need to feel obliged because I have to do it. I feel loaded with it and I feel lighter when you get it. Like a mother I tell you. Sometimes I have to be stern. I know the job of a mother. You need not be afraid of me at all. I know everything about you, somehow. Like we had one Douglas (Fry) with us and I suddenly asked him, “What about your birthday?” He was taken aback! He didn’t know – he’s sitting here – how I knew that his birthday was there. And he really had a rebirth from the life he had. And when I said, he said , “How do You know, Mother?” I said , “I know what about your birthday.” And I went to his house and saw him. [I was] so overjoyed to see him settled down. It is amazing how your seed grows and how fragrant you become.

May God bless you all.


If you have any questions, please ask me. We have little time.

There are eighty-four tapes already with these people and, if you want to have tapes for yourself, you can give them the tapes and they can tape for you or perhaps…

Those who do not feel vibration should not get upset. There’s something wrong somewhere. I may not tell you on your face, because I don’t want to hurt you in any way. But doesn’t matter, I am going to work it out, you see, doctor doesn’t come and tell you that, “You have got all these diseases and you may die next moment.” If doctor can do that, I am after all your Mother, so I am not going to tell you. You yourself will know, later on, what was wrong with you. Because by knowing that, you are not going to help yourself. On the contrary, you are going to feel dejected.

Now please put your hands just like this, just like this. And both the feet on the ground, straight. On the ground.

I think perhaps next Monday is the last meeting, is it? Two more? You are going to have me till the the end is it? Alright!

So I was thinking of, next Monday, I’ll be telling about elements and all those things how we are made. That would be better.

Now close your eyes please.

If you watch your thoughts you’ll find there are no thoughts. Keep your eyes shut. Just see. There are no thoughts in your mind.

Now, in your finger tips you’ll feel a cool breeze coming in. That means the Realisation has taken place because the cool breeze is the sign of the Holy Ghost, in Sanskrit it is, “salilam, salilam,” described that the Spirit emits or radiates, you can say, Itself as cool breeze.

The light of the Spirit is the cool breeze. Power of God. It’s a breeze like thing which starts floating or going inside your…If any one of you are feeling sleepy, keep your eyes open please. Be alert.

You have to be alert because this is the happening for which you have been desiring. See for yourself. The more desirous you are the better it is.

Are you getting cool breeze in the hand? Good. Close your eyes and enjoy yourself.

All those who are getting cool breeze, please raise your hands, all of you. All those who are getting cool breeze in the hand, please raise your hands. All those who are feeling cool breeze in the hand, please raise your hands.

Now those who have come today and not yet Realised and are not getting cool breeze, please raise your hands. Can you come forward?

Keep your eyes shut, please.

That lady?

You’re getting the cool breeze in the hands? Are you feeling any cool breeze?

Lady: Not so much.

Shri Mataji: Not so much? So you started thinking about it, that’s all.

Alright. So for that you ask for forgiveness, that, “I should not think about it,” and it will start flowing. Alright? By thinking you did not get it. So, it’s alright now. Good! See how clever it is!

Still wearing that? What is that? Now see him what’s the matter. On the heart he is catching. Now, better now ? It plays tricks.

John, see here, this side. Don’t watch others at this time. You watch yourself, alright? Very important. You catch people. Just don’t watch. Watch yourself. This is the time to watch yourself, alright?

David, come forward, here. John, you also come here, I would like to see you. John, you come here. David, you come here. Lindsey, you also come here. Let’s see. You sit down here first.

Lindsey just come here I would like to see you also. Just there. Just somewhere here. Just sit.

Is that Alan? How are you? Better now? Better? Can you come forward. You also. Just let me see. I wanted to see your vibrations also. Yes, please. Come forward. Can you take two chairs? You must see your vibrations. We must get ourselves corrected. There may be some sort of a thing because the vibrations if they are not sucking in alright, then there is some problem. Let’s get it alright. What is there to feel bad about anything whatsoever? Well, Alan, just come here, if possible. Alright. You can take a chair here next to John.

Alan, please open your eyes, please.

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi