Public Program By Invitation United Nations Headquarters, New York City (United States), 26-07-1988

I bow to all the seekers of truth. 

When we talk of truth we have to understand that’s not a mental projection. It’s neither your imagination nor your reading. It is what it is. We cannot change it. We cannot organize it. And we cannot conceptualize it. In our freedom, we have to choose the truth. But at human awareness, it’s not possible to know the truth. You have to rise higher than this human stage. As your U.N. is for the benevolence, for the benevolence, and if you have to achieve the benevolence of the world, we have to know one thing that we have to have the transformation of human beings. Unless and until we transform them as they are, you can unite them but you cannot integrate them. To integrate them you have to raise them to a new awareness of collective consciousness, where you become collectively conscious. Again I say you become. This is not that you can just certify yourself as something very aware people or as born again or twice-born or something like that. You cannot also certify yourself that we have known the truth. One has to be honest. Honest in the seeking of the truth. With that honesty only we can find out that truth has to be understood, only when you have Self-Realization. Now what is Self-Realization is to be understood. Whatever I tell you today you should not take it for granted and you should not believe in it. You have to see for yourself. As I already say you must have an open mind of a scientist. What I say is so, then it becomes a law otherwise treat it as a hypothesis for yourself. Keep it open, your mind to see if it works in you then [UNCLEAR] you are lucky, if it doesn’t work, we cannot give you a guarantee, and if it does not work only thing one can say you can work it out. Now a human being is made in a very special way. He stands at the epitome of evolution no doubt. It’s the most beautiful thing that God has ever created or Divine has ever created or we can say is really the epitome of the creation. But there is a little, little way I say at the most three and a half feet we have to cross over to become the Self which is our beauty, which is the source of joy, which is the source of bliss, and which is the source of peace. We work for peace all of us, all over the world. We have foundations of peace. But first of all are we peaceful within ourselves? If we are not peaceful within ourselves how can you (we) work for the peace of others? So to get to that we have to become Self-Realized. The Spirit resides in your heart. And there is a way that you can get connected to the divine force which is surrounding us. Which is a subtle force. Which is the divine love. Which is all around us. We have never felt it. Though many scriptures have talked about it. Many people have said about it. But they could not explain because others could not feel it. You have to feel that subtle force which is surrounding us. When you feel that you will be amazed at yourself, at your own glory, at your own beautiful being, which is a collective being, which is the Spirit. Now this takes place as we could say this is an instrument here, it was here but we could not use it unless and until it was put to the mains. In the same way, supposing let us say that you are a divine computer but you are not yet put to the mains, you are to be put to the mains and that is possible through the living force not through by forming some sort of a cult or some sort of a course or some sort of an organization. It’s a living force we can understand it how a seed sprouts by itself spontaneously. You can’t pay for it. How much do you pay to the Mother Earth to sprout a seed? Nothing. She doesn’t understand money. In the same way you can’t pay for your Realization. You can’t work hard for your Realization. It is so spontaneous and it is within you. This force resides within you. Now when I tell you about all these things that are within you, like if I say look at the chart (can you show them) at the base you see a red spot we call it as the Moodladhara centre. Now this centre is the centre which looks after your pelvic plexus on the physical side and is responsible for all kinds of excretory functions of your body. Above that is placed, above that is placed a triangular bone called as sacrum. Sacrum means scared that means Greeks knew about it that there is a sacred bone within ourselves. And this triangular bone contains the force or the power or the energy that connects us with the Divine, with the subtler energy that surrounds us. This is “Yoga”. I can’t understand the subject like “Yoga of Self-Realization”. Self-Realization means “Yoga” means the “Union”, “Union with the Divine” and as a result you get Self-Realization. All other yogas are misnomers in a way because they don’t give you the connection with the Divine. And this is what has to happen to us for our transformation. It has to work out of course. Now this triangular bone has got this special power which we call as Kundalini. I have seen some books, very big large books, written on Kundalini and I was shocked. Because it doesn’t know anything about Kundalini. It doesn’t describe anything about Kundalini. Kundalini is a force within us of pure desire. And you know in economics the very common principle that “wants, in general, are not satiable”. We want something today, we want something else tomorrow, it is never satiable. So economic wants are not real wants. That’s not a real desire. The real desire within us which is potential of which we may not be aware and some are aware and some think there is something like that within us because they are not satisfied with what they have. They know that something beyond we have to seek we have to get to something beyond. And when they start looking into it, that is a special category of human beings. I don’t know how many you have in the U.N. like that. But that special category of people are called as “Seekers”. They may do anything. They may go to drugs, they may go to false gurus, they may take some sort of courses, anything they may do. But they are a special category who want to try to find out the truth. But the method of doing that is within yourself, built in within yourself which has to work it out. Now above that if you see there are six centres we have seen. These are the six subtle centres which reside within us. These six subtle centres are manifesting within us in our parasympathetic system. Now the sympathetic nervous system is manifested by the two channels you see, the subtle channels which are left and right. Through our these two subtle channels, we go into not only  autonomous system but we say into the sympathetic system. Autonomous system is concerned with three systems is the left, right sympathetic and central para-sympathetic. So what happens that when you go into the left or to the right whether it is politics, left and right you see. Whether it is money seeking there is left and right. Whether it is family relationships there is left and right. So whichever way we move to the left or to the right, whether it is in a religion also we are left and right for example, in India the vedas and all that are for the right side and the devotion and the bhakti on the left hand side. Whenever we go to the left and right side we moved into areas of our consciousness which we can say as on the left-hand side is the subconscious area and beyond that is the collective subconscious. On the right-hand side you have got the supra-conscious area and beyond that is the area what we call collective supra-conscious. So when we try to do something with our physical being like in the U.N. I know most of you are right-sided because you have to plan too much. Plan, go on planning, planning, planning we live futuristic life we are very futuristic, we think too much. And all this entails a kind of a physical exhaustion as well as mental exhaustion, more mental. And when we become right-sided we move to the right, and we have to pay for it. When we move to the left side is the emotional side you can say where we people are very emotional and think emotionally and they are sort of attached to things which are emotionally strong for them. From these two types of people, what we have seen that they have problems of two types. As people who are on the right side have certain problems which can be also exaggerated if they have left-side problem. For example let us see cancer, how cancer is caused no one knows. It is very simple to find out how cancer is caused. For example within ourselves as I told you there are centres and we have the centres like this in the centre you see is the place where the medulla oblongata is placed you can say the whole spine is there and the brain and also has the centres. Now if you go too much to the left or to the right what happens that these centres start breaking and there is a constriction ultimately you reach a point where they are separated and you become on your own so the cells become malignant. As many human beings can also become malignant. They have no relationship with the whole. So this moves to the right side or to the left side makes no difference. But mostly it is to the right side when you move too much and if there is an attack from the left side as the doctors call it Protein 52 and Protein 58 I mean doctors are good at giving names, they are honest enough to just give names like they say autonomous, auto means what auto means something and auto is yourself. So they call it an autonomous nervous system. Now here they say as the Protein 58 and Protein 52. All these comes according to them from the area which was built within us since our creation. So it is from the collective subconscious on the left-hand side is attacked and that’s how a person becomes egoistical in the sense every cell becomes egoistical and starts dominating every other cell. When you start dominating every other cell you develop a situation where supposing the nose becomes big out of proportion to the rest of the body or the ears become big out of proportion to the rest of the body. That’s how you start growing. It happens also in the nations you see one country starts becoming bigger than the other and starts overpowering other country.  Is the same way it happens within our body and we say it has started in a way that it is now going to be destroyed. It can be stopped. It can be cured. Luckily now we have recognition from Delhi University where two doctors have got their MD, their Ph.D. in the way that they did research with Sahaja Yoga in the psychosomatic diseases, cancer is one of them, and also about physical fitness. And now it is established that if there is a Kundalini awakening you can get rid of your physical problems. Even AIDS can be cured, no doubt about it. It can be cured but you have to have people who are true seekers and who allow their Kundalini to be awakened and to be established. With honesty and with dedication if they want to work it out, they can work it out. The trouble is today that we are more enamored by superficial thing. Many people told me that Mother, if you say that your yoga costs five hundred dollars people would be very happy. I also as you know I have another life. And when I move in that society they are talking you know have you met certain guru is very expensive but very fine, he charges you six hundred dollars and then the another one would come up no, there is another one with seven hundred, Oh I must see. That type of society also exists. But if you think of your benevolence and really if you are honestly think for the emancipation of humanity, you must know that you can’t pay for it. What did we pay to become human beings. How much we have pay to Christ or to any one of this great saints who were there. The people who ask for money first of all are absolutely marketing managers or something like that. They are sitting in the market and you can’t sell Self-realization in the market that is to be understood first of all within ourselves. Once we understand that point then it is very simple to raise the Kundalini and to give Realization. Now there are some other centres as you see they stand for our emotional being, physical being, emotional being and our spiritual being is also harmed if you go to the wrong people. I’m not surprised that some people said that this program is canceled because you see they think I’m hitting them in the belly by saying you can’t pay for that. So they might be angry with me. I’m sure there are many like that. Doesn’t matter but you must know that you can’t pay in the name of God. You remember Christ had to take hunter and hit people when they were selling things in the market. And the same thing is today happening. So, please remember that you can’t pay for it. You can’t purchase me, I can’t purchase you. It’s another relationship that exists and that relationship is this that we all are part and parcel of the whole. A microcosm is the part of the macrocosm they talk about it. But it happens. It has to happen. So when you get your Realization the first thing that happens to you that on your central nervous system you can feel the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost as they call it. Holy ghost is reflected here as your Kundalini and this you start feeling also through your fontanelle bone area which is a real baptism, you can say, the cool breeze coming out of your head where it was the soft bone when you were a child. This has to happen, you have to certify yourself. It doesn’t happen, it doesn’t happen then you can’t say that I can’t certify it either. So when it happens to you, you start feeling on your fingertips. Even Mohammed Sahib has said it that at the time of qayama, at the time of resurrection, your hands will speak and give witness against you. He spoke about it. But who speaks about qayama. Nobody speaks about that. Christ has said that I will send you the Holy Ghost and you will know all about it. But who wants to think about Holy Ghost. You ask somebody, what is a Holy Ghost? They will say I’m agnostic and then if you ask what are you doing here, they will say I’m doing my job as you are doing a job. And we understand it. Because doing a job is a normal thing. Doing a job of God is a normal thing and getting money for it is a normal thing in the modern times. But it is not so. You can’t work for God and take money for that. Anybody who does that is a sinful act in the realm of God, is a fact. Whether one likes it or not it’s the fact, and it’s the truth. And I have to just tell you that we have to be very open-minded about it and to understand it, it is easy for people to just to take something very artificial where you can just pay some money to someone and think your seat is reserved in the heaven, to believe in such myths. But the reality is you have to have your Realization. You have to be born again. You have to know your within and you have to know without. When it happens to you, you become a witness of the whole thing. You become a person who sees it like a drama. For example, when you are in the water you are afraid of getting drowned. I find in America specially people are very worried about their sickness some sort of sickness they are worried about. Very intense. I find women and men very much worried and insecured. The reason is that they are standing in the water of ignorance. But if you go, get on to a boat you can see that. And then if you become a swimmer and expert you can jump in the water and save many others. Exactly that what happens to you that you become an expert. And when you become an expert you become your own guru as you can say or your own master. And you can start saving others because the whole power of redemption is within you. You can redeem people. You can purify them with your just movement of your hands, movements of your fingers you can cure people, you can do so much. And you don’t get into any trouble whatsoever. This is your birthright. You have to have it. Is to be enjoyed within yourself. In this short time, it is not possible that I should explain to you all about it. But we have many lectures I mean I must have given at least three thousand lectures so far in English language only. But in many other languages I have spoken much more. Now so far in the U.N. first time I’m speaking surprising though my husband has been connected with you for the last fourteen years. I just felt that let the U.N. first of all decide for itself. Then I could have a word with them. I hope some of you try to understand that if you have to have a real honest purpose and if you want to achieve something you must aim at transforming yourself and thus transforming others. You are not to force anyone. You can’t force it. You have to respect the freedom of people. You can’t force it. But your personality itself will prove it that there is something great about it. Itself will generate that feeling among others of peace and tranquility and joy that resides within you. And people will ask you how is it you are so tranquil. Now as you have seen some are speaking to you, these people mostly have been impressed like that and they came to Sahaja Yoga. I was even against publicizing or giving any book about it. I thought first of all let us collect those people who are sensitive. Those people who are really there because foundations have to be strong. You can’t build a building on foundation of people who are not so keen, who are not so honest and who are not so powerful. We don’t have to be big Jonny’s for that. That one thing I must tell you. On the contrary big Jonny’s are rather difficult. We have to be a simple person to understand. And to understand that beyond all these there lies something very very great and something very very unique that is within us and once that happens to us we can get an integrated United Nations.  

May God bless you all.

I have made this speech rather short today, reason is I would like to have some questions from you so that I could answer you. That’s the reason is. I’m here only for today and I hope I would like to do justice to you. Any questions that you have?  

Seeker: [UNCLEAR] Kundalini, do you have a special method?  (What is the method to awaken this Kundalini?)

Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. Just like a seeker. A real seeker. There is no method my child. No method. It is just a, you have to put your hands towards Me. And these fingers are here are seven centres one, two, three, four, five, six and seven. These are the seven centres on the left hand side and there are seven centres on the right hand side. If you want we can have the experience. Is very simple if you want it. As I said it, it can’t be forced. If you ask for it we can have it.  But let’s have some other questions this is a very beautiful question. 

( Shri Mataji addressing Sahaja Yogini:  You come here because sometimes I can’t understand.)

Seeker: I have been taught by a monk in Thailand about Kundalini yoga. And back here I have a problem with it and pain in my back. And I asked people in this session and they told me that as a Westerner my ego was too big and it was another kind of ego [UNCLEAR] Kundalini meditation and developed pain in her back. 

(Sahaja Yogini: She was thought [UNCLEAR] Kundalini in Thailand and she developed pain in her back).

Shri Mataji: Of course 

Sahaja Yogini: And they said the problem was her ego…..

Shri Mataji: These all are explanations which are wrong.

Seeker: I accepted that…. 

Shri Mataji: I tell you what. You see I tell you. One has to know ( how to) one has to have the authority from the Divine. You are very humble that’s what it is. But when they tell you that there is a pain or something and you get into trouble and you have to suffer and this and that, please remember that when you are ascending you don’t suffer, you enjoy. Get all the blessings, it’s a blissful state. Those people tell you to suffer don’t believe them. It’s nonsense. How can it be? Anybody who is a Realized soul can’t suffer. It’s a fact. We think that Christ suffered is a wrong idea. He didn’t because they are in a witness state. They never suffer. They take sufferings upon themselves. And when people say you must suffer they are going wrong. Thank God now there is a book called as “Norstic” I wish you all could raise your hands on that, it is the book written by St. Thomas. And when he was going to India, (he came) he went through an itinerary [UNCLEAR] and wrote down there that the inner [UNCLEAR] Christianity about what Christ was. There he has said we have to have the experience of Self-Realization to begin with. It’s a spontaneous happening and thirdly he has very clearly said that God doesn’t want you to suffer. Which father would like you to suffer? That can’t be a father’s job. So you don’t have to suffer at all. And if you suffer then know that there is something wrong with it. Now this pain and all that you see should not be there why? Because Kundalini is your own individual Mother. When you were born your mother took all the pains. She didn’t give you trouble, did she? In the same way, you don’t suffer. If you suffer then something wrong with you. Which can be corrected. Of course, we can correct it. Lots of things people are doing in the name of Kundalini, in the name of God because you see God doesn’t have the United Nations to control it. There is no authority to say why are you doing this. They are doing all kinds of wrong things to such an extent that now the young people say there is no God. I mean that’s not proper because it’s not scientific I think to say there is no God because they say [UNCLEAR] people are using it for the wrong purpose. There is, but you must see for yourself if it so. So there are many like that in the market no end to it. And when they suffer they say you go to see a doctor. I mean there are I know the people who have become mad. I would say I have got some people from transcendental meditation who have suffered so much they lost all their money and everything they got epilepsy and I am treating them. There are people from other many groups who are doing this nonsense and they have suffered so much. But they have money, they make money and they can do whatever they like. Because they were so money-oriented. It’s a fact. So many I can show you who are suffering because of going to these wrong places. But you [UNCLEAR] should use your intelligence. With pure intelligence, you will understand. Use your intelligence. How can you get pain, Kundalini, She is your own Mother. But nobody says that. According to them, Kundalini seems to be some sort of a horrible female devil or something like that. I mean to say that itself is wrong. She is the Holy Ghost. Now say for example they say there is a father, got the father, as got the son, what about the mother she is missing. Use your logic. How can there be a son without a mother and there is a mother, the Primordial Mother. And that Primordial Mother is the Holy Ghost. So they called her a Holy Ghost. All right. Keep it as a Holy Ghost so nobody knows anything about it. It is some sort of a mystery. And when this knowledge comes from the East then they say oh, this is the Eastern knowledge. They must know that the knowledge of the East is the knowledge of the roots. You have the knowledge of the tree. You have to have the connection established. But the knowledge of the East of that is selling in the market. Is not most of them might have been in the jails and came here to sell things which they do not know. How do you know what are they going to file list [UNCLEAR]. The less monarchy file lists [UNCLEAR] they have better it is for the people to believe it. 

Shi Mataji: Yes

Seeker: Does finding your Realization just affect the earthly existence or does it also have a bearing of what happens after your death?

Shri Mataji: Of course, of course. It has a bearing for everything. Of course. 

Seeker: How does it affect after your death?

Shri Mataji: I think you see just now we are dealing with the present. I’m going to see you later on in private and I will explain to you all these things. I told Gregoire to bring you down to see me so that I can tell you all about it. All right. That’s not so important. Just now we have to deal with the present. All right. 

Now this one gentleman…

Seeker: I would like to address the issue of the way lot people of U.N. think about how we should be helping the world lot of the people here think that if we just feed everyone and give them clothing everything is going to be ok and the point you made before that the consciousness of people in general [UNCLEAR] I mean their consciousness should be raised and understand themselves [UNCLEAR] to be extended as that the most important thing that should be done. 

Shri Mataji: That’s true. It’s true. 

Seeker: And then not really I don’t think really touched the point. But let’s say Special Aid Agency, or the U.N. General Assembly or anything like that. We are completely convinced the material necessities being the total solution in the last couple of months I have been here and I have seen the shortcomings of that and wonder if you have any ideas about that.

Shri Mataji: Your reading is correct that you see the material well-being if it was the end of everything[ UNCLEAR] what about the countries who were supposed to be afferent and  [UNCLEAR] this and that. What’s happening to them?  Affluence is now being sold out for cocaine. No wisdom. No control. No understanding. Developing diseases of such horrid nature so-called freedom. So there has to be wisdom and wisdom of the Self. I would say for India sometimes I say thank God we are not that rich. Otherwise, we would have become hippies, we would have cocaine, we produce lots of these things in India but nobody takes it. In a way because still the wisdom is intact in the people, I don’t know about other places but it is there. So to get to that wisdom which is enlightened within us we have to have our consciousness transformed into the new consciousness of Self-Realization. Of course in a country like Ethiopia or some place where it is so much of a drought. Also it have some spiritual reasons no doubt I don’t want to discuss it here. Whatever it is we have to have food sufficient enough so that we can think of God. Satisfy. If we have no satisfaction even food, clothes, cars and everything just going to make us more competitive, is going to make us more greedy. And as a result of that very egoistical. And when we try to help others so-called help, when we think we are helping other countries it has a reaction. And that reaction is that one becomes very arrogant and becomes absolutely blind with ego. Absolutely blind with ego. This generosity does not have any innate compassion in it. For example, supposing a Sahaja Yogi cures a cancer patient. He never thinks that he has cured or he has done good to that person. He thinks he has done good to himself. Because you are part and parcel of the whole. So when you help others it just makes you feel oh we have helped this country we have helped that country. That help also doesn’t reach its roots, to the extent that you wanted to reach. Because you are giving itself is great arrogance. And when people become arrogant and egoistical they don’t know how much they hurt others. They don’t know how much they hurt others. Sometimes it feels  baba[ Hindi word] don’t give that money to us. We don’t want it. For heaven’s sake keep it to yourself. That kind of help is the hell for us. For example, you don’t know but I must tell you that India was given once upon a time some sort of a help of rice and wheat I believe from America I am not very sure. And it was mixed with some sort of grass which they called as Congress, Congress grass. And it started eating up all the plants, all the trees and all the crops. It was impossible to deal with it. But then we have to pray and work it out. It rained and rained and rained and that seed was destroyed. Then they gave us something else and they gave us Bridgett a kind of a acacia plant which had horrible thorns three to four inches long and any child who touched it, died. And still there we call it a mad acacia, still there. Much is destroyed but still there. It’s very difficult to destroy it also. So despite the so-called help for the food they gave people can give you hell and death. So when we think we are helping others, who is the other? We should ask the question. Even Roosevelt in his wisdom had said: “ in America, that poverty anywhere is a threat to prosperity everywhere”. He could see the point. I mean you have very great people here I must say very great people in this country. They stand like lotuses like we have Abraham Lincon who was a realized soul no doubt about it. But today who takes his name you have become so money-oriented. Those days of idealism is over. The value system is over. I agree there was a war all right let us settle back into ourselves and have that balance. Unless and until you have that balance you cannot ascend. At that balance is to be established. I agree with you entirely and we can do something about it.

Seeker: I was more interested in any ideas that institutionalizing that. I realized it’s properly, it’s usually said that you institutionalize something like that it’s ruined [UNCLEAR]. But here if you make anything like that hard statement about how to approach something like this, then it’s no longer its true nature no longer usable. But I think we are talking about something of a very large scale and…

Shri Mataji: Is there. Within you it is there. And you better get it. Let’s have some people here who get it. They think no doubt I am sure. Some people may require more time. I shouldn’t say so much. I have seen bureaucrats are rather difficult thing. Bureaucracy is a difficult thing I must say, I’m sorry to say but that’s my experience is. But if you forget that you are a bureaucrat it will work out. Just to forget that point. You see bureaucracy is when you were born, took up a job it’s not your innate cell and once you retire then you know what bureaucracy is and of course, I have known people who carry dummy files with them even after retirement. They are used to it so much [UNCLEAR]. We can’t do without them. Poor things they have to work for us that’s how they lose their Self-Realization I think.

Yes, madam.

 (Shri Mataji addressing Sahaja Yogini: Christina, come here I can’t hear you).

Seeker: Can you tell us about the opening of the Chakras and this energy flow that… …[UNCLEAR]

Shri Mataji: I would love to but I [was] think the time is so short and there are, and if you come and see these people and they have a workshop and they will give you all the literature, you can read about it and know each and everything. Every city, every district, is going to be manifested through you and you will know it. But it’s like this you see when there is darkness no use talking about color or flowers or anything. Let us have the light. So simple. For example, for all these lights there is one switch. You just put on, it works. We didn’t need to tell about the whole history of the electricity and about all the things. Just have the light first and then we will talk about it. All right. 

Yes, please.

Seeker: Mother, I came from China and this Mother when this Mother is going to China and give Chinese people Realization?

Shri Mataji: Oh, I have been to China three times with my husband. They are wonderful people. It’s very easy to give Realization to the Chinese. They basically they were very wise. And they believe in Confucius. And now they have to move a little more and see why Confucius talked about balance for the ascent. I would say like this you see all the theories we have about say capitalism and communism is a theory, is a human-being thing. And is very partial I should say one-sided and bias. For example, when we talk about democracy, we talk about an individual. That an individual has to be created [UNCLEAR].  The individual has to grow. The individual is everything. We don’t think about the collective. The other way around in the communism that we talk about collective first and then about communism. They are so interdependent that we can’t make one strong and another weak. And now when we develop our personality so called individualism, what I find that people lose their personality completely. For example, a fashion starts any stupid fashion. Say like in India a stupid fashion has started to make holes in the pant. Everybody is having holes in the pant. It is so dangerous in that cold to have holes in the pant. But they said it was a holy pant.  By making holes in the pant, they are thinking I mean it’s idiotic, Isn’t? In a way. So when we start developing the individual we lose the personality. And personality we lose because personality comes to you from the collective, from the society which is collective which is lacking. That’s why we find communism is better. But in the communism part of it there is another mistake. That we think the collective is very strong and when we talk of collective we forget the individual. Without the individual, the collective can’t be all right. So I met a very, a very dynamic lady in England who is a politician said she told Me, has started a party which is in the center. Which is neither left or right. But I said why? Because we are fed up of this left and right. I said what’s about the center you will be static, neither you will be moving this side or that side so what’s the use of being in the center. Then she said what should we do. I said you should be ascent-oriented. You should be ascent-oriented. Now tell you what how in Sahaja Yoga what happens an individual is nourished and a collective is related to it so you know how far you are with the collective. So all the time both things are going together. Is an ascent-oriented thing. For example, see Myself if I would say I have all the powers and you know I’m happily married have children, and have everything. I mean anybody in my position would be going to clubs and having some nice time. But I’m here traveling every day going round the places meeting people, going through lots of problems with the people unnecessary they think but no, it’s necessary for me because I must share it. So on one side if I’m a capitalist and other side I’m a communist. But I’m really a capitalist, and really a communist. Because I can’t help it. This is the meeting point. And there where we are gone wrong in both these because they have theories. But I think Lenin thought in that way, he did talk about it.  Abraham Lincon thought in that way. But we have gone on the wrong path. Because once you start sliding down you go down. It’s like that. But we must meet now somewhere. 

Any other question? Yes, please.

Seeker: What can you say about how people seem to be hurting the Earth by chemicals etc [UNCLEAR] 

Shri Mataji: There is no balance. You have machinery you see. Now machinery should be developed in balance to our need. Machinery developing like mad. What are we created this plastics which penetrates into everything, crawls up into everything. Now you got plastic mountains. You don’t know what to do. I mean it’s like that a galiwar [UNCLEAR] story you see. Where he met a gentleman who said whatever work you tell me I will be doing but one condition you have to go on telling about. He said all right. I will tell you work because he told him all right. Make me a house, and make me this, do this, do that. But the fellow would not tired. He said now give me some more work. Like a machine asked for. So he got so frightened of this gentleman he said now otherwise he might eat me off, if I don’t tell him the work. So he told him that you do me a favor you just climb this coconut tree up and down till I say you to stop you go on. And he ran away. It’s like that. That’s what we are doing with our machinery and now automatically we are laying down, the shipping has gone down. So many companies have told that so many big companies in America are laying down their people even the UN is laying down their people’s. So we must have a balance, we must have a balance and that what is the discretion of your wisdom which is not working. Machinery is all right up to a point. And now people are hankering after handmade things. Thank god we have China and India which can provide something. Hope China doesn’t take too much to machine. Too much too. We are the only people, we are the only people remember that within the balance. 

But that has to be seen in a very comprehensive way otherwise you can’t see, if you see one country you cannot establish, you see the whole thing they have to balance. Too many imbalances in life has caused this. That’s why we are troubling Mother Earth. The worst and worst of all Mother Earth is troubled by the immorality we are practicing there. The way we have become immoral. Is the worst thing Mother Earth has to suffer. Christ has said, “Thou shall not have adulterous eyes”. What a subtle thing to say I mean for the Christians to say this is too much. Thou shall not have adulterous eyes not even in the mind but adulterous eyes, to that extent he told us. How many are following that? Such purity. But you do achieve it. You do achieve it because innocence never dies. It’s within you. It comes, it works, it purifies you. No doubt. Have faith in yourself. 

How can you stop people from exploiting Mother Earth. Because they have faith in machinery. They have no faith in themselves. Automatically it works a little bit because if you produce too much of plastics then we want to stop it. Then what do we do with your machines. Machines are becoming our masters now computers will become our masters and they will guide us and through computers I don’t know one day the computers will start eating us. I mean to keep a balance there also. We have to keep the balance there also. I mean anything in nature if you see a flower a particular flower grows up to a certain point only. Even your body if you see grows up to a point. I mean the nose of a human being does not become like a trunk of an elephant does it.  But according to the if the human beings had planned it, that would have been so. Unless and until they go to the extreme they can’t recede back. That’s human nature. What can we do. In their freedom, after all, you see they have been given freedom to choose. You cannot stop it artificially. If you try to do something artificially it doesn’t work out. There is a peace foundation. I know one lady who has got peace noble prize. She is one of the hottest person you can think of. You can’t talk to her normally better take a barge board and go near her. I know her so well horrible and if you ask her subordinates they say “ Oh, god terrible she is”. And she is supposed to be a peacemaker. Don’t know how. This artificial things we cannot work it out. It’s so superficial as he says it’s true. So superficial. We must see that. All intelligent people should see it so clearly.

Again.

Seeker: Before you mentioned that in your view human beings were the epitome of creations. Is it your view that we are the highest living evolved things or just the material creation you were referring to? 

Shri Mataji: I do not get the last sentence. 

(She didn’t understand you).

Seeker: I was saying that just need to clarify your statement that human beings really being the epitome of natural evolution. 

Shri Mataji: Yeah…

Seeker: Is it your view that evolution has ended with humanity and thus ….

Shri Mataji: No, no not yet. With the Self-Realized souls, it will end. With the Self-Realized soul, it will end.  It’s just waiting for the last break. 

Seeker: My question is can we see as human beings where evolution ends? Because we are the epitome of evolution. 

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. You can see so many things you are in a way. I will tell you the beauty of human beings now. See of course they have made mistakes after all they are human beings. They are not God’s so they can make mistakes. Doesn’t matter. Nothing wrong in it. After all they are given freedom without wisdom naturally what will happen to them and naturally, they make mistakes. It’s all right, nothing to feel bad about it. But as you said, that why is it the epitome. Now I will tell you, supposing you take a horse and ask him to go through a dirty lake, he will but not a human being. Show a flower to a horse he won’t be able to make a difference between a flower and a grass. No sense of beauty, no sense of sound, no sense of music, I mean we are great people, we know so many things no doubt. Our sense of beauty, our sense of cleanliness, our sense of visionary items, we are the only ones who have visions. Actually in Sanskrit animals are called Pashu meaning under the complete control of God. They have no sense of also sin or something wrong, they have no sense. Like My granddaughter one day said it must be difficult for the animal like a tiger. I said why. Because his parents must be saying that “Eat this cow, eat that animal, eat this, eat that” and poor thing has to listen to the mother [UNCLEAR]. So this is what we are, we know what is wrong, what we should not do. It is innately within us and we are very great. Aren’t we? The way we have managed everything, we have maneuvered electricity and we have maneuvered so many things. We can change dead things into dead things, of course, I mean we don’t do any living work but at least we human beings can do it, animals cannot. I was told chimpanzees tried something like that but I don’t think they have done anything like that. Somebody challenged me saying that chimpanzees did it and I said really he was representing chimpanzees. [laughter]

Seeker: I don’t think I was wording my question right. I was referring actually I have been referring to evolution beyond humanity. 

Shri Mataji: Yes. Yes, of course.

Seeker: And would you agree with this and which you say that there are things beyond our understanding …

Shri Mataji:  I mean epitome of evolution when I say I mean now the state where you are the epitome. Supposing now you have a building right and it has reached the place where it is the epitome in the sense that is the end of it. But if you build it something on top of that, and that now becomes the epitome. 

Seeker: [UNCLEAR] Individual

Shri Mataji: Yes, so that has to happen still that breakthrough. But I say it’s an epitome because that gives confidence also. One has to play certain confidence tricks first of all because these days I find in the West specially because they don’t have much idea about Self-Realization and there is a lot of diffidence and fear and they think that they are very wrong people. And there is another fashion which is very indubious is to feel guilty all the time. Those who feel guilty, are just I don’t know doing it for fashion’s sake. What is there to feel guilty about? I don’t know. There is nothing to feel guilty. After all, you are human beings. And if the Divine is the ocean of forgiveness. What guilt can you have which is greater than the Power of forgiveness of the Divine.

Shri Mataji: What did she (seeker) say, Christine?

Christine ( Sahaja Yogini): Are there too many people? On earth?

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes there are. There could be more. No harm. But as said in the bible, that in the kingdom of god, only 144,000 will be entering. So we shouldn’t be worrying about what happens here. Actually, this is also a very question to be seen from another angle. Why are there so many people in the countries which are not so rich. Why? On the contrary, the rich countries have minus population. People are paid money to have children. I discovered in Germany when I went there. The lady who was in charge of Me she told me that when we have children our figure is spoiled. I mean figure has become some sort of a I don’t know what is more than a God. So our figure is spoiled. Then our husbands want to marry younger people. And then we are left high dry with our children. Because our figure is spoiled, so they marry the figure, not the women [laughter]. Thus as a result see we have decided not to have children. But also you will be surprised in England every week 2 children are killed by parents. Is a statistic. Now they say it has increased. Imagine this cruelty, to your own children. There is no love. So if they are sensible they would like to be born in a country where there is love and not so much money. This imbalance may be due to that. And many want to take birth because they want their Realization. If I tell you that in India I go to any village, any village there will be at least 10,000 people sitting down to get Realization.  Coming on their bullock carts, horse, buses, 10,000. What about [unclear]. They are the ones who will get Realization, those who are supposed to be overpopulated. They will enter into the kingdom of God. I mean some of you have seen it, they have been to the villages they have seen what happens. Isn’t it. We have seen it. 10,000. Minimum, 10,000. While here people are not serious about their own lives, at all. So that overpopulation is better than this population which is just enjoying the food and maybe big cars. I mean this population won’t enter into the kingdom of God.

Shri Mataji: All right, those who want to stay for Self-Realization can stay on according to the official announcement. 

Sahaja Yogi: I think that was a presentation of Sahaja Yoga which was permitted by the time available here. Staff members probably have to go back to the office at some point. Again on behalf of the Yoga Club and U.N., I would like to thank you Shri Mataji for having come here. I would say that perhaps this would be the end of the official part of this function. It is customary perhaps, it is not customary that Shri Mataji speak at the [UNCLEAR] U.N., but it is [UNCLEAR] customary where She addresses the public on the necessity of [unclear] Self-Realization and at the end of the program, She initiates something like a collective meditation where some people not everybody some people can feel the Self- Realization. I would suggest that the people who came to ask questions and to hear about it, may if they so wish – 

Shri Mataji: You can write to me. 

Sahaja Yogi: You can write to Her, whatever. And those who would like to participate in their experience that no one of course is obliged to do so. Actually, you are discouraged to do so, unless you don’t really want it. [UNCLEAR]. Is this acceptable?


Shri Mataji: About 10 minutes. 10 minutes it will take.

Sahaja Yogi: Those who would like to leave should leave, then those who want to stay the understanding that they will go into the experience, more experimental phase of the problem. And if we have entered into this stage now, there are 2 things that throughout to be done. Is to sit very comfortably and perhaps take out your shoes. You have to take out your shoes to make a connection with the earth.

Shri Mataji: We are in the ground floor or we?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes

Shri Mataji: Then this Mother Earth help us [UNCLEAR]….